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  • The Calm and Fashionable Political Thread

    As requested, this thread will consist of only gentlemanly discussion about politics. No name calling, no posting of smears about politicians that dont pass the smell test (or FactCheck), no insulting of any political candidates on either side, no posting of funny pictures of any politicians, etc.

    Discuss issues only! Polls are allowed to be posted, but they must not be accompanied by smart ass comments along with them.

    Go forth and prosper...
    “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

    Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

  • #2
    :crickets:

    /thread
    Sponsor of Adam Wainwright
    Sponsor of the $0.50 any-size frozen coke at Mobil on the Run when the Cards score six
    There are 24 teams in baseball with a longer World Series drought than the St. Louis Cardinals.
    "I told myself from the beginning, 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,' ... he was not going to beat me today." ---Adam Wainwright, 8/11/10
    "I was confused." ---Tim McCarver, 7/30/15

    Comment


    • #3
      kah won't be clicking on this...

      (too easy)

      "Can't buy what I want because it's free...
      Can't buy what I want because it's free..."
      -- Pearl Jam, from the single Corduroy

      Comment


      • #4
        It would be nice, but it aint happening on here.
        Make America Great For Once.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok, I'll go first. Obama's latest spanish speaking ad is a lie. While the MSM went after McCain for the sex ed ad, don't expect to hear anything from them on this one. From Jake Tapper:

          From the Fact Check Desk: Obama's New Spanish Language TV Ad Es Erróneo


          September 17, 2008 5:53 PM
          Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has launched a new Spanish-language TV ad that seeks to paint Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., as anti-immigrant, even tying the Republican to his longtime conservative talk-radio nemesis Rush Limbaugh.

          As first reported by the Washington Post, Obama's ad features a narrator saying: "They want us to forget the insults we’ve put up with…the intolerance…they made us feel marginalized in this country we love so much."

          The screen then shows these two quotes from Limbaugh:
          “…stupid and unskilled Mexicans”
          —Rush Limbaugh
          "You shut your mouth or you get out!”
          —Rush Limbaugh

          The narrator then says, “John McCain and his Republican friends have two faces. One that says lies just to get our vote…and another, even worse, that continues the policies of George Bush that put special interests ahead of working families. John McCain…more of the same old Republican tricks.”

          There are some real factual problems with this ad, which is titled “Dos Caras,” or two faces.

          First of all, tying Sen. McCain – especially on the issue of immigration reform – to Limbaugh is unfair.

          Limbaugh opposed McCain on that issue. Vociferously. And in a larger sense, it’s unfair to link McCain to Limbaugh on a host of issues since Limbaugh, as any even occasional listener of his knows, doesn’t particularly care for McCain.

          Second, the quotes of Limbaugh’s are out of context.

          Railing against NAFTA in 1993, Limbaugh said, "If you are unskilled and uneducated, your job is going south. Skilled workers, educated people are going to do fine 'cause those are the kinds of jobs NAFTA is going to create. If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people, I'm serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do -- let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work."

          Not one of his most eloquent moments, to be sure, but his larger point was that NAFTA would mean that unskilled stupid Mexicans would be doing the jobs of unskilled stupid Americans.

          I’m not going to defend how he said it, but to act as if this was just a moment of Limbaugh slurring Mexicans is not accurate. Though again, certainly if people were offended I could understand why.
          The second quote is totally unfair. In 2006, Limbaugh was mocking Mexican law, and he wrote:

          “Everybody's making immigration proposals these days. Let me add mine to the mix. Call it The Limbaugh Laws:

          “First: If you immigrate to our country, you have to speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor; no unskilled workers allowed. Also, there will be no special bilingual programs in the schools with the Limbaugh Laws. No special ballots for elections. No government business will be conducted in your language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote or hold political office.

          “If you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled to welfare, food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here: an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If not, stay home. But if you want to buy land, it'll be restricted. No waterfront, for instance. As a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to the property.

          “And another thing: You don't have the right to protest. You're allowed no demonstrations, no foreign flag waving, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our President or his policies. You're a foreigner: shut your mouth or get out! And if you come here illegally, you're going to jail.
          “You think the Limbaugh Laws are harsh? Well, every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico today! That' how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country. Yet Mexicans come here illegally and protest in our streets!
          “How do you say ‘double standard’ in Spanish? How about: ‘No mas!’”

          But even if one is uninclined to see Limbaugh's quotes as having been taken unfairly out of context, linking them to McCain makes as much sense as running a quote from Bill Maher and linking it to Obama.
          Asked for backup as to how Obama could link McCain to Limbaugh, the campaign provided this interview with McCain refusing to condemn the Minutemen from from the Kansas City Star:

          Q: ‘Are they a good thing? The Civil Defense Corps, do you think -- do they help in the immigration fight, or not?’
          A: ‘I think they're citizens who are entitled to being engaged in the process. They're obviously very concerned about immigration.’
          Q: ‘Are they helpful?’
          A: ‘I think that's up to others to judge. I don't agree with them, but they certainly are exercising their legal rights as citizens.’

          Asked about the “lies” they’re accusing McCain of telling, the Obama campaign provided evidence that McCain in July 2008 told La Raza that he would have voted for the DREAM act, a bill that provides scholarships for the children of illegal immigrants, even thought he earlier in the campaign season said he would have voted against the bill.

          Let’s delver further into this.

          In the November 2007, Myrtle Beach Sun-News, McCain said of the DREAM Act, which he had cosponsored in the past, "I think it has certain virtues associated with it. And I think other things have virtues associated with it. But the message is they want the borders secured first."

          The newspaper noted that McCain said he’d vote against a temporary worker program, even though he supports the idea. "I will vote against anything until we secure the borders," he said. "There is no way we're going to enact piecemeal immigration reform."

          Before La Raza, McCain was asked by a young Latina if he’d support the DREAM Act, and he said, “Yes. Yes.”

          The full exchange, however, goes like this:

          QUESTIONER: Hi. I’m a part of One Dream 2009 and I am one of the 6 million who either have an undocumented parent or is undocumented and I wanted to know if you would support humanity all around the world and support our Dream Act that we are trying to pass.

          MCCAIN: Yes. Yes. Thank you. But I will also enforce the existing laws of a country. And a nation’s first requirement is the nation’s security, and that’s why we have to have our borders secured. But, we can have a way and a process of people obtaining citizenship in this country. And, we cannot penalize people who come here legally and people who wait legally. And so, that’s a fundamental principle on which we have to operate. Thank you.

          The Obama campaign also provided a number of seemingly conflicting comments McCain has made about offering greater funding for education programs in the No Child Left Behind act -- telling the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials in June that he “would fully fund those programs that have never been fully funded,” while not suggesting any greater funding for the bill when he’s talked about education in front of whiter audiences.

          That ignores the fact that McCain has suggested reallocating the way the $23 billion for NCLB is spent.

          McCain has changed his rhetoric and his emphasis when discussing immigration after almost losing the GOP presidential nomination because of it.

          He now says the borders must be secured before anything else happens. And in that, he’s opened himself up to charges of flip-flopping, though the Obama campaign is quoting him selectively and unfairly to make their points.

          The greater implication the ad makes, however, is that McCain is no friend to Latinos at all, beyond issues of funding the DREAM act or how NCLB money is distributed. By linking McCain to Limbaugh’s quotes, twisting Limbaugh’s quotes, and tying McCain to more extremist anti-immigration voices, the Obama campaign has crossed a line into misleading the viewers of its new TV ad. In Spanish, the word is erróneo.
          -- jpt
          "You can't handle my opinions." Moedrabowsky

          Jeffro is a hell of a good man.

          "A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." - Robert Frost

          Comment


          • #6
            http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080918...8TIjeZ0TOs0NUE

            A democracy without civics?
            By Sandra Day O'Connor and Lee H. Hamilton
            Thu Sep 18, 4:00 AM ET



            Washington - September 17 marked the 221st anniversary of the signing of the Constitution. Students across the country spent a few minutes of their day learning about the remarkable work of our nation's founders.



            This is nice, but America's schools should be doing a much more thorough job of honoring the civic mission that was the reason for their founding.

            Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence and one of the first advocates for public education in America, argued forcefully that schools play a crucial role in preparing the citizens of a democracy. "There is but one method of rendering a republican form of government durable," he wrote, "and that is by disseminating the seeds of virtue and knowledge through education."

            With young people voting at higher rates than ever before, it might seem that the founders would be pleased with our progress. Yet civic engagement requires more than voting in presidential elections every four years. A healthy democracy demands sustained citizen participation, and our schools must give students the knowledge and tools to participate.

            Sadly, civic education has been in steady decline over the past generation, as high-stakes testing and an emphasis on literacy and math dominate school reforms. Too many young people today do not understand how our political system works. They lack the tools to shape their communities through their own participation.

            This shows up on national tests – though not, disappointingly, any of the tests our government uses to gauge school performance. On the last nationwide civics assessment, administered in 2006, two-thirds of students scored below proficiency. Not even a third of eighth-graders surveyed could identify the historical purpose of the Declaration of Independence. Less than a fifth of high school seniors could explain how citizen participation benefits democracy.

            Equally troubling, we face a widening civic achievement gap. Hispanic and African-American students are twice as likely as their white counterparts to lack civic knowledge and skills, while low-income students score significantly lower than middle- and upper-income students. In other words, our schools' failure when it comes to civic education is especially stark in communities most in need of civic engagement.

            If we hope to sustain American democracy, we need to treat civic learning as on a par with other academic subjects. To participate fully in our democracy, students need to understand our government, our history, and our laws. They need to appreciate the skills democracy imposes on us – consensus building, compromise, civility, and rational discourse – and how they can be applied to the problems confronted by their communities and our nation as a whole. Restoring this civic mission of schools will require a concerted effort in school districts, at statehouses, and by the federal government.

            The federal government should embrace civic education when it revisits education reform next year. Developing and then mandating civics standards – and increasing funding for civic learning – would go a long way toward jump-starting progress.

            States likewise can elevate the importance of civic learning by creating commissions to review thoroughly the state's approach to civic education, instituting civics as a graduation requirement, and funding professional and curricular development.

            Schools, which the noted education reformer John Dewey called the "midwife of democracy," should include civic learning in their mission statements and incorporate civics – including discussion of controversial topics and the responsibilities of citizen engagement – into their curricula for students of all ages.

            The anniversary of the Constitution and the upcoming presidential election offer a chance to reflect on the health of American democracy. Still, democracy is a sustained conversation among citizens over how best to govern their communities. It is not enough for this conversation to take place on one day, or even over the course of one campaign.

            Our democratic discourse must begin in America's schools, which shape the attitudes and experiences of more citizens than any other institution.

            The anniversary of the Constitution should be an occasion for reaffirming our long-term commitment to civic participation. That means restoring education for democracy to its central place in our schools. Only then can we fulfill the Constitution's promise of a more perfect union.

            • Justice Sandra Day O'Connor served on the US Supreme Court for 24 years and Lee H. Hamilton (D) of Indiana served as a congressman for 34 years. They are co-chairs of the Campaign for the Civic Mission of Schools, dedicated to restoring the civic mission of America's schools.
            Make America Great For Once.

            Comment


            • #7
              Honorable FAR, the word "lie" is banned from this thread.

              Please desist from using such words.
              “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

              Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Razzy View Post
                Honorable FAR, the word "lie" is banned from this thread.

                Please desist from using such words.
                i did not think you were allowed to post in this thread.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MsFunkay View Post
                  i did not think you were allowed to post in this thread.
                  Anyone may post here, as long as they do so in a civil, mild-mannered and unoffensive fashion.
                  “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

                  Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I can't go for this.

                    No can do.

                    I can't go for this.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Razzy View Post
                      Anyone may post here, as long as they do so in a civil, mild-mannered and unoffensive fashion.
                      then what is the point for opening up another thread when you make up "rules" on the spot? you never said in your first post that the word "lie" was not to be used.

                      can a mod please lock this?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MsFunkay View Post
                        then what is the point for opening up another thread when you make up "rules" on the spot? you never said in your first post that the word "lie" was not to be used.

                        can a mod please lock this?
                        LOL, well, you talked about having a political thread that was "calm and fashionable" and this is our attempt to have one.
                        “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

                        Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Razzy View Post
                          LOL, well, you talked about having a political thread that was "calm and fashionable" and this is our attempt to have one.
                          no you told bluezone you could direct him to another thread. i asked where a certain thread was and you automatically decided to create this. and there is no attempt to have one when the usual suspects will show up in this thread as well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            THe political discussion on this board is so tame compared to some others. The hate and vileness seen would blow your mind.

                            Here its much more civil and humorous. A much less serious tone. People on this board seem to understand how much bullshit is really involved, on both sides, and try and have more fun with it.

                            Elsewhere it's life or death.
                            To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i'll take the under.

                              Comment

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