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Are Izturis and Ryan competing for the same spot?

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  • Are Izturis and Ryan competing for the same spot?

    Looking at the position players still in camp...

    Molina, LaRue, Glaus, Hoffpauir, Izturis, Kennedy, Miles, Pujols, Ryan, Jimenez, Ankiel, Barton, Duncan, Ludwick, Mather, Schumaker, Gonzalez, Rasmus.

    Figuring we keep 12 pitchers, that's 13 spots for position guys. Molina, LaRue, Glaus, Pujols, Ankiel, Duncan and Ludwick are guaranteed spots, leaving six more.

    Hoffpauir needed to have a phenomenal spring to break north with the club, and while he's been solid, I can't imagine he's going to get a roster spot. Aaron Miles is Aaron Miles, but I doubt they'd have brought him back if they didn't expect him to be on the club, so I'm assuming he has a spot. Five open. Ryan is playing well and is a backup option at third, but I've seen nothing to indicate he's out of TLR's doghouse. D'Angelo Jimenez is an older, fatter, browner Brendan Ryan who probably doesn't hit as well. Both of them will certainly not make the team. Barton has to be returned to Cleveland if we don't keep him, so I suspect we will. That's four spots left. Mather is an interesting part of this puzzle. If he can play the infield corners with anything resembling quality, he's probably hit well enough to justify making the squad. Schumaker, Gonzalez and Rasmus are probably all competing for one spot. I think at this point we should resign ourselves to Juan Gonzalez being on this ballclub and Skip Schumaker being involved in a trade of some sort. Rasmus is starting the year at AAA, which is fine.

    So, that's Molina, LaRue, Pujols, Miles, Glaus, Gonzalez, Ludwick, Ankiel, Duncan, Mather, Barton. Eleven guys, six of whom are outfielders (including Mather as the new, sober Scott Spiezio). That leaves two spots for Kennedy, Izturis, Ryan and Jimenez.

    I don't see why D'Angelo Jimenez would make this team. Maybe I just don't want him to, but he doesn't seem to have any value that I can fathom. He sucks defensively, he's slow, he can't hit. I can't imagine he makes the team. So, two spots for Kennedy, Izturis and Ryan.

    Adam Kennedy is making the team. His contract is large enough and he's hit well enough in the spring to justify it, and he can't possibly be worse than last year. We're not going into the year with Aaron Miles starting at second, so Kennedy stays.

    So, Izturis and Ryan. Neither is lighting the world on fire; Izturis is way more shitty of course, hitting .115 (3-26). Ryan is hitting .227 (5-22). In OBP, however, the numbers are different. Ryan has a .320 OBP and a .638 OPS. Izturis is .179 and .371, respectively. Neither has been great in the field, Ryan with a .917 FP and Izturis at .897.

    So, what to do? Ryan appears to get on base more. He also has experience playing second and third, and lord knows TLR loves utility players. Cesar Izturis sucks, and should not make the team.

    When we break camp, then...

    Molina
    LaRue

    Pujols
    Kennedy
    Ryan
    Miles
    Glaus

    Duncan
    Ankiel
    Gonzalez
    Ludwick
    Mather
    Barton

    And let the battle begin between Miles and Ryan for the starting SS job.


  • #2
    Sometimes, basing the quality of the player on spring training numbers is good (Pujols) and horrifically bad (Jim Lindeman)...

    "Can't buy what I want because it's free...
    Can't buy what I want because it's free..."
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    • #3
      How much are we paying Izturis?

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      • #4
        IF Juan Gone continues to have a good spring, do you see any contending team that may be interested in a minor deal? I'd love to get Rasmus up here and stick him in one of those outfield spots. Since everyone seems to be expecteding a bad season, why not give your younger guys a real looksee?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by AWSmith98 View Post
          How much are we paying Izturis?
          Cesar Izturis ss
          1 year/$2.85M (2008)
          • signed as a free agent 11/30/07
          • $0.65M in erformance bonuses:
            • $0.1M each for 400, 450 PAs, $0.15M each for 500, 550, 600 PAs
          Or, like someone is paying Jeffro: by the word...

          "Can't buy what I want because it's free...
          Can't buy what I want because it's free..."
          -- Pearl Jam, from the single Corduroy

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          • #6
            Well Schumaker has had a good spring -

            I see no reason now to put him behind Gonzo or Ludwick.

            Secondly

            Izturis is making 3 mil - but he sucks -
            He will get a "injury" and be placed on the 15 day list before spring training ends.
            So might Kennedy.
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            • #7
              I actually thought I've read a couple places that they were going to break camp with 11 pitchers but I may be wrong. If they go with 11, Ryan's on the team no doubt. Mather is your only other option to back up 3B really and he hasn't played there much in the minors.
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              • #8
                Package Duncan, Izturis/Ryan, & Mather/PTBNL for a starter. and SS prospect

                Schu in center as the leadoff guy
                Ank and Juan on the corners
                Barton as #4


                Schu, if he works out and the team does well, holds the spot and lets Rasmus develop in AAA....If not, and team suck, they bring Rasmus up and he learns here.

                Barton, Juan and Ank rotate/platoon the corners.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by _#7 View Post
                  Package Duncan, Izturis/Ryan, & Mather/PTBNL for a starter. and SS prospect

                  Schu in center as the leadoff guy
                  Ank and Juan on the corners
                  Barton as #4


                  Schu, if he works out and the team does well, holds the spot and lets Rasmus develop in AAA....If not, and team suck, they bring Rasmus up and he learns here.

                  Barton, Juan and Ank rotate/platoon the corners.
                  IIRC, you can't trade a FA signee until after the All-star break in the year they sign with the team.

                  And as much as I like Schumacker off the bench, I'm not sure he's enough of an OBP guy to hold down the leadoff spot on a regular basis. Honestly, at this point - and I know it's early - if I have those guys to choose from I put Ankiel in center, Barton and Juan. in the corners, and let Shumaker be the 4th guy. I like Brian much better as a leadoff guy than Skip.

                  -RBB
                  Last edited by RedBirdBrain; 03-12-2008, 10:08 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Izturis has a $3M deal. Ryan has options. C'est la vie.

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                    • #11
                      hey Backstop, can you envision a situation where they think Izturis is so bad that they just tell him to go away?
                      Sometimes elections have positive consequences!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cardinalgirl View Post
                        hey Backstop, can you envision a situation where they think Izturis is so bad that they just tell him to go away?
                        Sure, I guess it's possible, but:

                        -- He'd have to be really, really, really bad. I'm as down on Izturis as the next guy (or gal), but I also don't put much stock into spring training. Not that he should be booting the ball around, but he's got a pretty good track record of usually catching the thing.

                        -- $3M guaranteed is an awful lot to flush. This isn't Greg Vaughn or Spivey.

                        -- It's not like Ryan is doing anything to absolutely demand playing time. We know he's not a TLR favorite to begin with. This isn't a Pujols/Bonilla situation. It's Brendan Ryan. And there's nothing else out there, which is why we have Izturis in the first place.

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                        • #13
                          yeah, I'm not the worlds greatest Ryan fan either. I wonder how bad this lineup is going to be. Worse than our rotation, if that's even possible?

                          oh and we have two chats today! JSL and MO!!!
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                          • #14
                            Izturis has been awful.......hopefully Ryan would get the edge there, but with the money they are paying Izturis, fat chance there.....I would take Miles over him at the position....

                            In regards to the outfield, I hope Duncan gets his shit together before the season starts, 'cause right now I would rather see Barton in left based on his bat alone.....it's just pre-season, but Duncan is the only OF literally not doing shit with the bat right now.....I guess on the bright side, he hasn't made any knucklehead plays out there yet......
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cardinalgirl View Post
                              yeah, I'm not the worlds greatest Ryan fan either. I wonder how bad this lineup is going to be. Worse than our rotation, if that's even possible?

                              oh and we have two chats today! JSL and MO!!!
                              No matter how bad the season goes, we will still be ahead of Houston and Pittsburgh.....
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