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  • "FIASCO"

    I know there are still a few stalwart Bush Administration supporters here in the Lounge, and in America, for that matter.

    Please read "Fiasco," the fairly new book by Thomas Ricks, who covers defense for The Washington Post. It is a meticulously researched look at how we got into the war in Iraq and how the insurgency grew.

    The level of incompetence is simply staggering. What's most striking is how the administration -- mostly, Rumsfled -- just simply ignored the very military folks whose careers had been spent planning for wars. There was no plan for what to do after we won the war. None. Incredible. Bremer shows up and immediately calls for the army to be disbanded, for all Baathists to be kicked out of office, etc. The military and CIA begged him to reconsider. He wouldn't. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were suddenly without jobs. The insurgents found a new source of support. Even more incredible.

    What's truly amazing to me is that Bush & Co. still seem to have the support of the average soldier, because they don't have the respect of the upper brass.

    I know what you're thinking...Washington Post reporter...typical liberal crap...but he has people talking, on the record, including military folks, and he also has the documents to support his findings. He also has attempted to be fair to Rumsfeld and Bremer, pointing out how they might have reached certain decisions.

    If nothing else, I hope this book will forever erase this notion that our leaders know more than we do, and as a result are deserving of our unquestioning support. They don't.
    "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
    --Albert Einstein

  • #2
    Washington Post = Pinko Rag.

    No thanks, I'll just make sure my subscription to Pravda is up to date.

    Moon

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll pick it up.
      His mind is not for rent, to any god or government.
      Pointless debate is what we do here -- lvr

      Comment


      • #4
        I would, but I can't read. Go Bush!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Moon Man
          Washington Post = Pinko Rag.

          No thanks, I'll just make sure my subscription to Pravda is up to date.

          Moon
          Sigh....I know you're kidding, but I almost didn't mention where the guy worked for just this reason. When you've got military folks, on the record, talking about what a clusterfuck this has been, seems to me like even our God-fearing Republican friends might want to pay attention.

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
          "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
          --Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            KBF -

            This war and truth - long ago began running away from each other.

            Most Americans know it - even those who support Bush -

            It may be the single dumbest thing in foreign policy history.
            Turning the other cheek is better than burying the other body.

            Official Sport Lounge Sponsor of Rhode Island - Quincy Jones - Yadier Molina who knows no fear.
            God is stronger and the problem knows it.

            2017 BOTB bracket

            Comment


            • #7
              It's too depressing to read any more about this sort of thing ...
              Dude. Can. Fly.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Schwahalala
                It may be the single dumbest thing in foreign policy history.
                But it was "necessary" ...
                Dude. Can. Fly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Schwahalala

                  It may be the single dumbest thing in foreign policy history.
                  I guess you forgot about when Bush I puked on the Japanese Prime Minister.

                  Moon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Schwahalala
                    KBF -

                    This war and truth - long ago began running away from each other.

                    Most Americans know it - even those who support Bush -

                    It may be the single dumbest thing in foreign policy history.
                    My thinking is that guys like Reggie are absolutely right about needing grown-ups in charge who take terrorism seriously.....but these are absolutely not the right guys.
                    "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
                    --Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kennyboyerfan
                      I know there are still a few stalwart Bush Administration supporters here in the Lounge, and in America, for that matter.

                      Please read "Fiasco," the fairly new book by Thomas Ricks, who covers defense for The Washington Post. It is a meticulously researched look at how we got into the war in Iraq and how the insurgency grew.

                      The level of incompetence is simply staggering. What's most striking is how the administration -- mostly, Rumsfled -- just simply ignored the very military folks whose careers had been spent planning for wars. There was no plan for what to do after we won the war. None. Incredible. Bremer shows up and immediately calls for the army to be disbanded, for all Baathists to be kicked out of office, etc. The military and CIA begged him to reconsider. He wouldn't. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were suddenly without jobs. The insurgents found a new source of support. Even more incredible.

                      What's truly amazing to me is that Bush & Co. still seem to have the support of the average soldier, because they don't have the respect of the upper brass.

                      I know what you're thinking...Washington Post reporter...typical liberal crap...but he has people talking, on the record, including military folks, and he also has the documents to support his findings. He also has attempted to be fair to Rumsfeld and Bremer, pointing out how they might have reached certain decisions.

                      If nothing else, I hope this book will forever erase this notion that our leaders know more than we do, and as a result are deserving of our unquestioning support. They don't.
                      Sounds like a good book, but none of this matters any more. People are going to believe what they are going to believe, even if the truth is sitting there right in front of them. The last 6 years has really been an eye-opener for me, as far as that goes. Right-wing talk shows will still defend Bush and Republicans in general, and rip liberals. Politicians will still spin, use innuedo, distort, lie, fabricate, exaggerate, etc, and people will still buy into their bullshit, convinced that they must know things better than we do.

                      Long live the USA. Yay.
                      “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

                      Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Razzy
                        Sounds like a good book, but none of this matters any more. People are going to believe what they are going to believe, even if the truth is sitting there right in front of them. The last 6 years has really been an eye-opener for me, as far as that goes. Right-wing talk shows will still defend Bush and Republicans in general, and rip liberals. Politicians will still spin, use innuedo, distort, lie, fabricate, exaggerate, etc, and people will still buy into their bullshit, convinced that they must know things better than we do.

                        Long live the USA. Yay.
                        Told you so.

                        Hoot!

                        King

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dvyyyyyy
                          It's too depressing to read any more about this sort of thing ...
                          You got that right. As I said in my post, it just doesnt matter.

                          This guy who wrote the book will go right into the incinerator, and in the end, he'll be labelled a liberal, traitor, someone with a vendetta, etc, and people will still believe what they want to believe.

                          Because, in the end, God meant for Bush to be president of our truly blessed nation.
                          “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

                          Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kennyboyerfan
                            I know there are still a few stalwart Bush Administration supporters here in the Lounge, and in America, for that matter.

                            Please read "Fiasco," the fairly new book by Thomas Ricks, who covers defense for The Washington Post. It is a meticulously researched look at how we got into the war in Iraq and how the insurgency grew.

                            The level of incompetence is simply staggering. What's most striking is how the administration -- mostly, Rumsfled -- just simply ignored the very military folks whose careers had been spent planning for wars. There was no plan for what to do after we won the war. None. Incredible. Bremer shows up and immediately calls for the army to be disbanded, for all Baathists to be kicked out of office, etc. The military and CIA begged him to reconsider. He wouldn't. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were suddenly without jobs. The insurgents found a new source of support. Even more incredible.

                            What's truly amazing to me is that Bush & Co. still seem to have the support of the average soldier, because they don't have the respect of the upper brass.

                            I know what you're thinking...Washington Post reporter...typical liberal crap...but he has people talking, on the record, including military folks, and he also has the documents to support his findings. He also has attempted to be fair to Rumsfeld and Bremer, pointing out how they might have reached certain decisions.

                            If nothing else, I hope this book will forever erase this notion that our leaders know more than we do, and as a result are deserving of our unquestioning support. They don't.
                            People on St. Louis Cardinal based message boards have been screaming this at the top of their lungs for five years now, getting a lot of ridicule from the usual suspects in return. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.
                            But wait. There is something that can be done afterall. My good friend Angelo is a cop in the Tampa/Clearwater area. Since I kept all of the files from the access logs when I had the power to see them, guess what, I have everyone's IP addresses. Hmm..what can I do w/ those??
                            ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Razzy
                              Sounds like a good book, but none of this matters any more. People are going to believe what they are going to believe, even if the truth is sitting there right in front of them. The last 6 years has really been an eye-opener for me, as far as that goes. Right-wing talk shows will still defend Bush and Republicans in general, and rip liberals. Politicians will still spin, use innuedo, distort, lie, fabricate, exaggerate, etc, and people will still buy into their bullshit, convinced that they must know things better than we do.

                              Long live the USA. Yay.
                              And yet...and yet....look at Bush's miserable approval ratings. Look at how many incumbents are nervous about holding their seats. Look at how the majority of folks seem to be ignoring the administration's recent attempt at scaring the hell out of people.

                              Sure, you're going to have folks who support or don't support a politician no matter what he or she does. But there are still enough people in the middle to try to persuade.

                              It will be very interesting to see how the November elections turn out. If GOP does great, then I think I'll have to agree with you. I mean...Iraq...Katrina....how much evidence do people need?
                              "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
                              --Albert Einstein

                              Comment

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