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  • Will there be a draft?

    What are the thoughts here?

    I've heard a lot lately that a draft could be needed within 2 years for a war that is supposedly over... <_<

    To me (a 19 year-old draft eligible and registered male) this ought to be the biggest issue of the upcoming election.. I could give a fruit less whether gays are allowed to marry (pun intended).

    Call me a coward, a commy, a Frenchie, whatever you want.. But I REFUSE to put my life on the line so Bush can have more oil.

    Furthermore, I understand some of you have served and that's fine for you.. I respect you for that... But personally I don't think America has fought a necessary war since WW2, and that is the only type of war I would consider enlisting in.

    "
    Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

  • #2
    easy answer: make sure you're in school. They won't draft you if you're continuing your education

    Easier answer: don't worry because there's no way Bush wins the 04 election.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by BringBackZezel@Feb 25 2004, 05:42 PM


      Easier answer: don't worry because there's no way Bush wins the 04 election.
      I think you could be right.. But with Nader in, who knows...

      Besides I'm not so sure Kerry is going to be moving troops out real quick..

      "
      Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

      Comment


      • #4
        It scares the hell out of me too. If you are in school, are you protected 100% from the draft? was it that way for vietnam too?

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd bet all that I am worth that we will never see another draft.
          Jimmy Buffett quote of the week:

          "Open season on the open seas and Captain says no prisoners please. Skull and crossbones on a background of black. We ain't stealin' we're just takin' back ."


          - Jimmy Buffett, Take it Back, Boats, Beaches, Bars and Ballads Box Set

          "Now, she should be good-looking, but we're willing to trade looks for a certain... morally casual attitude."

          -

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Fishbone@Feb 25 2004, 05:48 PM
            It scares the hell out of me too. If you are in school, are you protected 100% from the draft? was it that way for vietnam too?
            I'm not all that sure on it.. I think school protects you at first, but when they become more desperate it doesn't..

            Clinton was on a Rhode Scholarship but still ended up having to dodge the draft, so I'm not real sure on it...

            "
            Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mellanby_equals_grit+Feb 25 2004, 05:46 PM-->
              QUOTE(mellanby_equals_grit @ Feb 25 2004, 05:46 PM)

            • #8
              I typed in a search looking for draft rules to find out if students are completely exempt.. This was the first story that came up...

              Tuesday, January 13, 2004

              Selective Service fills local board

              Some fear U.S. effort signals return of the draft

              By Tom Grace


              Cooperstown News Bureau


              A national effort is under way to staff local Selective Service boards in the event a military draft is needed.


              Otsego, Delaware and Chenango counties are now served by Selective Service Board 43, said Mary Neely, who works in a Selective Service System regional office near Chicago that oversees the East Coast. The five-member board is full, with at least three appointments being made in the last year.


              Volunteers on these boards would help draft young men, should Congress and the president authorize the effort.


              "We have 'boards,' but we don't have 'draft boards' because we don't have a draft," said Neely on Advertisement



              Monday.


              Neely said she has heard nothing at work to suggest the draft will be reinstated. Melissa Carlson, spokeswoman for Rep. Sherwood Boehlert, R-New Hartford, said she also has heard nothing to suggest a draft will be authorized by Congress.


              However, some sources suggest the Bush administration's push to fill the boards may lead to a draft if more soldiers are needed in Iraq and Afghanistan.


              Tom Heitz of Fly Creek, a former Marine Corps lawyer, is one recent appointee.


              "I was attending a Rotary Club meeting in Oneonta last spring, and a major in the National Guard was looking for volunteers to serve on the board," Heitz said.


              Heitz agreed to be considered and received a presidential appointment. He received a day and a half of training in Albany last June and gained some insight into the Selective Service system, he said.


              The Selective Service boards have two purposes, Heitz said: to find eligible, potential soldiers as soon as possible if a draft is authorized, and to keep people out of the military if they are eligible for deferments and exemptions, he said.


              "We have to give equal weight to both sides of the law," Heitz said.


              Heitz said he has heard nothing to suggest a draft will be reintroduced.


              "My opinion is that if there were a bio-terrorist attack on the United States and we had to guard every reservoir, for instance, we might need a draft because our professional soldiers are all over the world," said Heitz.


              Heitz also said that Selective Service rules make it easier to draft medical personnel than others, should the need arise. Otsego County, with its two hospitals and relatively small population, might contribute heavily to this sort of draft if it were needed, he said.


              James Salisbury of Otego was at the same Rotary Club meeting as Heitz. He said he submitted his name and received a presidential appointment.


              "I never served in the military, and I thought this was something I could do to help the community," said Salisbury.


              So far, S.S. Board 43 has not been assigned to do anything, he said.


              "We all hope that it won't be needed, but we need to be prepared," said Salisbury.


              Landin Van Buren of Oneonta, a World War II veteran, is another recent addition to Selective Service Board 43.


              "We haven't done anything yet," he said.


              The two other members of S.S. Board 43 are Robert Lee of Chenango County and James Picozzi of Delaware County, Neely said.


              Last year, a bill to reinstate the draft was promoted by U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York City, who argued that a draft would be a more equitable way to staff the military than the all-volunteer army the nation has employed since 1972.


              The volunteer army has become a haven for poorer young men seeking advancement, but in times of war and crisis, they and their families suffer disproportionately, Rangel has argued.


              Carlson said that the Department of Defense opposes a draft, and in an April 29 letter to the House of Representatives' Armed Services Committee, DOD General Counsel Williams Haynes wrote, "Presently, there are 2.6 million uniformed personnel in the active and reserve components of the U.S. military, a number that is adequate to meet existing mission requirements."


              But a recent Salon.com story about draft boards contains this sentence:


              "Increasingly, military experts and even some influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's prediction of 'a long, hard slog' in Iraq and Afghanistan proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to consider a draft to fully staff the nation's military in a time of global instability."


              The Rev. Gary Doupe, formerly of Oneonta and now of Binghamton, has opposed the draft for decades and was sorry to hear Selective Service boards are being restaffed.


              "My opinion of the draft is that it's primarily a tool of totalitarian governments, not of democracies," Doupe said.


              Doupe said nonviolent movements "have always accomplished more than violence," and he cited movements, including those in Chile and Poland, that successfully overthrew oppressive governments through non-violent resistance.


              Doupe dismissed one of Rangel's arguments: that political leaders might be less likely to use the military if soldiers were conscripts, because their own sons and their friends' sons might be in uniform.


              "Their sons won't be in it; the rich, with few exceptions, have always found a way to get out," Doupe said.


              Another man who has protested the draft, Will Siegfried, formerly of Oneonta, asked, "If the staffing of the boards isn't a precursor to a draft, why are they doing it?"


              Siegfried, who is staying in Colorado this winter before returning to New York, protested the reinstatement of registration in 1980, an initiative undertaken by President Jimmy Carter at the time of the Iranian hostage crisis.


              "Someone must think we're going to need a draft again," he said.


              Current law requires all young male citizens to register with the Selective Service within 30 days of turning 18. Forms are available online or at post offices.


              Should a draft be reinstated, the rules would require young men in their early 20s to be called before those who are 18 and 19. Males over 26 do not have to register, according to rules listed at the Selective Service website.



              That part scares me.. That's the exact age area I'll be in..

              "
              Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

              Comment


              • #9
                Mellanby - if there's a draft, just do what GWB did - join the Texas Air National Guard! You get free dental care!
                2005 Mandatory Loyalty Oath: I love America, our troops, baseball, Moms, and certain pies. I want no harm to come to any of those institutions, nor do I take any glee in their demise.

                Comment


                • #10
                  There is no chance at all that you'll be drafted. I believe Bush will win the 04 election, but it's not going to be an issue. Before then troops will start getting pulled out if for no other reason than that it costs a lot to keep them there.

                  Just as an aside, even if the did re-institute the draft AND you got drafted AND it was in time for your training to be completed before a US pullout, historically only 23% of US draftees have served in combat positions. Your most likely posting would be within the US in a support position. Second most likely would be in a support unit in a non-combat area, such as Europe.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Okay, here is what I was looking for...

                    UNDER 26?
                    BE PREPARED WITH
                    Facts on Registration and the Military Draft


                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    REGISTRATION

                    Bring a friend or two with you as witnesses when you register at the Post Office. You do not get a receipt when you register, and you may need proof of registration for student aid, job training aid, job opportunities, or other purposes.

                    When you register, ask for two registration cards. Fill in both, and write "duplicate" on one. Ask the clerk to stamp both and give one back to you. Keep it for proof that you have registered. A stamped, duplicate card is a valid proof of registration.

                    Make a photocopy if the clerk will not let you have a stamped copy. It is legal to take it anywhere. Make two copies. Fold one in half and mail it to yourself without an envelope. The postmark on the back will show when you registered.

                    If you register, make sure the SSS has an address where mail reaches you promptly. The time your notice spends in the mail comes out of your 10 days.


                    NON-REGISTRATION

                    Caution: Non-registration is punishable by up to six years in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000.

                    However, there are now over a half million non-registrants nationally; the government is not prosecuting at this time. No prosecutions have occurred since the mid 1980's.

                    Under current policy, you will not be prosecuted if you have not received a "final warning" letter from the Justice Department. You may also receive a warning letter from the SSS or from the IRS.

                    If you receive a warning letter, talk to a draft counselor or a lawyer.




                    Student and Job Training Aid: Recent laws require registration in applying for financial aid. If you can not or will not confirm registration, alternative private aid may be available. Contact a draft counselor.


                    Conscientious Objection

                    If cooperating with the draft or with the military disturbs your conscience, you are not alone. Many people feel that in a nuclear age we can not afford any military buildup.

                    If you are bothered by your military obligations, talk to a draft counselor. Brochures on conscientious objection are available from Maine Draft and Military Counselors (see addresses/phone numbers below).


                    KNOW THE ROPES

                    You are the person most affected by the draft, and you deserve to know what the government may expect of you. Draft procedures can be hard to follow, and the Selective Service System (SSS) and Post Office won't help you understand them.

                    Things can change fast.

                    If the draft were activated tomorrow, you might find yourself in uniform in less than two weeks.

                    Plan ahead what you will do if this happens. Be prepared with necessary documents.

                    Draft rules and procedures have been re-written since the draft was last used. This will mean even more confusion than usual with the draft. To protect yourself, try to find out now about the rules that apply to you.

                    You have only 10 days if drafted to apply for exemptions and deferments. If you qualify, know how to get them.


                    IT'S YOUR LIFE

                    If activated, the draft could drastically affect you. Your best protection is a sure knowledge of what you will do if you are drafted.

                    The draft regulations may change between now and when you are drafted. With the pentagon anticipating a shortage, it is wise to keep informed. Talk to a draft counselor or to a lawyer familiar with the draft law.

                    Magazines and newsletters are available to keep you informed of changes in draft policy.

                    The best advice: Plan ahead; keep informed.


                    EXEMPTIONS AND DEFERMENTS

                    You may not apply yet, but if drafted, you must apply for all the exemptions and deferments to which you are entitled. If you don't, you will not be allowed to apply for them later.

                    Student postponements are available for students in high schools, vocational schools, etc., who are age 20 or under.

                    College students can receive postponements until the end of the term, or of the year for seniors. Ministry students are exempt if in accepted divinity schools.

                    Physical Exemptions: Standards are complex and fill 23 pages of government manuals, but many are as common as hay fever, flat feet, or being overweight. Draft counselors have the whole list and can help you determine which you may qualify for.

                    Mental exemptions: Standards are also complex, but you do not have to be mentally ill to qualify. Some "mental problems" for the army are no problem in civilian life.

                    Hardship deferments are available if your absence would be a financial, emotional, or physical problem for your wife, children, parents, grandparents, sisters, or brothers.

                    Conscientious objectors are exempt from military service if they object to war in any form. You do not have to belong to any special church, or even be religious, as long as the objection is based on moral or ethical beliefs.

                    Women can not be drafted now, but if the draft is activated, Congress may decide to draft women. Keep informed, and be prepared to act quickly.

                    Get your documents ready now while the draft is on standby, especially if you are age 18-22 years old.

                    Documentation is required to support your claims for most exemptions and deferments.

                    For some claims you will also need witnesses, and you may need to make a personal appearance before your draft board.

                    Draft counselors can tell you which exemptions and deferments you may qualify for. They can also help you decide what documents you will need, and rules you will have to follow.

                    You may also qualify for exemption or deferment if:

                    your father, mother, sister, or brother died from service related injuries or ill ness during or after their service

                    you are a full-time minister (ordained or unordained), or a ministry student

                    you are a citizen of another country

                    you have been in the service, or in certain other government agencies

                    you do not meet moral standards

                    It would appear I would only be exempt til the end of a semester. :angry:

                    I hate Bush.

                    "
                    Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I understand the concern, but why are you worrying aboot it now?

                      Wait till after the election...

                      "Can't buy what I want because it's free...
                      Can't buy what I want because it's free..."
                      -- Pearl Jam, from the single Corduroy

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        If there is a draft, I'd make damn sure it's an across the board, no outs, no excuses, no special protection type of situation under any circumstance.

                        I'm talking about everyone from the inner cities and rural Appalachia, to the CEO's and career politican's 18 year old child. EVERYONE gets inducted. Then, we'll see how anxious a given president is to initiate a war.
                        Make America Great For Once.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by The Kev@Feb 25 2004, 06:03 PM
                          If there is a draft, I'd make damn sure it's an across the board, no outs, no excuses, no special protection type of situation under any circumstance.

                          I'm talking about everyone from the inner cities and rural Appalachia, to the CEO's and career politican's 18 year old child. EVERYONE gets inducted. Then, we'll see how anxious a given president is to initiate a war.
                          In other words ...

                          "George Bush feels insecure about his prick so he has to feel like a man by sending other people's children to die"- George Carlin (granted he was talking about the first gulf war but it still applies)

                          "
                          Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Trigfunctions@Feb 25 2004, 05:58 PM
                            Mellanby - if there's a draft, just do what GWB did - join the Texas Air National Guard! You get free dental care!
                            I dunno.. That would require a full 9 days of my time!

                            "
                            Why are the Russians suddenly a problem?" -Bgats

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