Cardinals Defense

[Jack Sparrow Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jack Sparrow]

This is for the people that have mentioned the defense is overrated, under achieving, and was "predicted" to be sub par.

There is only one position that can be improved. After that, I dont see how it can be better. Here is a breakdown.

C - Matheny - Gold Glover
1B - Pujols - Soon to be Gold Glover
2B - Womack/Hart - Both can get the job done. Womack struggles a bit to turn every DP that we expect, though we may have been spoiled from Vina's above average ability to turn the dp in the blink of an eye. Who could we have gotten to be a better defender? Alomar?
SS - Edgar - Gold Glover, struggles early
3B - Rolen - As good as it gets
RF - Reggie, aint JD Drew, but that isnt a bad thing in terms of games played
CF - Jimmy - gets it done, less flare this season and might be healthy enough to play the year out
LF - Marlon - this is the main problem. So is a very good defender, who else should we have gotten to play here? The loss of Cairo is a killer, considering he can do it all. Also, we may miss Orlando a bit. He was solid out there. The biggest thing is bringing up Hart and leaving down very capable outfielders in AAA.

What should have been done or more importantly, what should be done?

[backstop Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close backstop]

Originally posted by JackSparrow@Apr 20 2004, 09:50 AM
1B - Pujols - Soon to be Gold Glover

Al?

[ElviswasaBluesFan Over 40 Victim of Fate Find all posts View Profile Close ElviswasaBluesFan]

Jettison Hart back to AAA and bring up Porter or Mabry. Luna had a terriffic spring but if he isn't going to play, why let him waste on the bench when you need guys who can play the OF? Either broker a trade with CLE so he can be sent down or give him back so it opens up a roster spot.

Skates Jr. in LF has cost us 2 games so far.

[WinstonSmith Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close WinstonSmith]

Good topic.

Pujols is overrated defensively at this point in his career. He hasn't yet learned the position; he takes too many chances and while aggressiveness is good, it can also be bad.

Second base is a "minus" defensive postion for us this season, no matter how you slice it. Womack has never been considered anything more than adequate and Hart has always had a knock on him in that area, too. The only exception being last season, but then this Spring he was performing according to plan.

Edmonds, thus far, has not shown less flair. I still see him doing something stupid and getting himself hurt.

Sanders is certainly a downgrade from JD. I know a lot won't be willing to say too many good things about Drew, but he was better in this respect than Sanders.

Left field, as you said, doesn't even need to be mentioned.

[kaiser Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kaiser]

Every mistake the defense makes is magnified by the pitching staff's inability to pitch around it. If the pitchers aren't going to strike anyone out, the importance of defense becomes magnified.

That being said, the defense has been shaky so far.

[kconn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kconn]

You definitely over-rate Pujols (which I'm not too worried about) and Womack (which I am.)

Womack is not a good defender. He's played pretty well for two weeks, but much like his offensive outburst, I don't expect it to last.

Renteria, Matheny, Edmonds are fine, Rolen is one of the best ever. Reggie is solid.

I could play left as well as Marlon.

[SLUBLUE Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close SLUBLUE]

Bo has NEVER been a defensive liability at second, with the exception of spring training...which doesn't count in the standings

[WinstonSmith Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close WinstonSmith]

BLU, I can only go by what his "file" says on him.

It says he's weak in the field.

Now, you're right, he was great last season, but perhaps that was an anomoly. We can't say that he's never been bad expect in Spring unless you only want to considering his time w/ the Big League Club.

I don't think its a good idea to discount his minor league track record.

[BringBackZezel El Guapo Find all posts View Profile Close BringBackZezel]

Jack's right about Pujols winning a gold glove @ 1B....but that doesn't mean he's good defensively. These are the same people who gave Rafael Pamiero a Gold Glove the year he played like 25 games @ 1B. 1B Gold Gloves go to the biggest name player @ the position.

[SLUBLUE Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close SLUBLUE]

I haven't seen Pujols screw up yet

[Jack Sparrow Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jack Sparrow]

I based my view on Womack over the first two weeks of season. I think he is adequate...........with that said, WHAT SHOULD WE HAVE DONE WITH THE POSITION?


As for Pujols, he can field grounders better than a lot of first basemen. He can throw the ball around the infield(when that is ever needed) better than most others. He can get over towards the dugout and catch pop ups. So far, he has shown he is aggressive going to his right trying to field grounders. His other flaw might be running backwards to catch a foul ball. Its a weird angle if you havent played the position before. To be fair, he played third, which is the opposite angle, and he always had a SS to help him.

He missplayed a ball over his shoulder a few times, and likely should have given way to Reggie to make the play. Aside from this, why would you people assume he wont improve at this position? After Helton, I'd say Pujols is the best 1B in the NL.

[Jack Sparrow Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jack Sparrow]

Originally posted by BringBackZezel@Apr 20 2004, 11:14 AM
Jack's right about Pujols winning a gold glove @ 1B....but that doesn't mean he's good defensively. These are the same people who gave Rafael Pamiero a Gold Glove the year he played like 25 games @ 1B. 1B Gold Gloves go to the biggest name player @ the position.

You are correct. Some say they give 1B gold gloves based on OFFENSIVE stats.....which shouldnt be done, but likely has been done......Palmerio is a great example, bbz.

Who would you guys want to be our 1B? You want Pujols in left and Mabry/MckAAAy at first?

I wouldnt. Let him stay there and finish his career up there. Keep him fresh and keep his arm from hurting again.

We need to solve the LF problem that is Marlon. It isnt helping that he is hitting balls out of the park.

Ray Ray needs to get healthy.....never thought I'd say that, but Marlon blows.

[FAR52 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close FAR52]

I think a left field with Ray is good enough. Does he return tonight?

[fender tele Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close fender tele]

Hasn't Womack played some of?
Yeah I know that would be putting another inflder in the of, but it CAN'T be any worse than Marlon.

Can it?

[kaiser Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kaiser]

Originally posted by SLUBLUE@Apr 20 2004, 10:14 AM
I haven't seen Pujols screw up yet

1st game of the year he tried to turn two when he shouldn't have--bad decision.

3rd game of the year he and Williams got crossed up on a play at first--bad decision.

Last game he called off Sanders on a foul down the right field line--bad decision.

He looks very good over there from a fielding standpoint. He's good with the glove, quick, etc. Just makes bad decisions. That will change.

One thing I've noticed is he sure is quick to catch the ball and step off 1st on close plays. I don't think umpires appreciate that. Back in the '70s Reggie Smith was doing that until umpires started calling guys safe because Smith was taking his foot off the base too quickly. Then Smith stopped doing it. Don't know if anyone else noticed this.

I think he's going to be very good defensively, but he's not there yet.