NORAD had drills of jets as weapons

[ironman]

In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon (news - web sites) - but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.

Wow. I've also maintained that hardly anyone every considered this and even fewer thought the buildings would fall that day. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Trigfunctions]

Unbelievable. The Bush admin is either lying or inept. Four more years!

On April 8, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks heard testimony from national security adviser Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) that the White House didn't anticipate hijacked planes being used as weapons.

On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it "too unrealistic."

President Bush (news - web sites) said at a news conference Tuesday, "Nobody in our government, at least, and I don't think the prior government, could envision flying airplanes into buildings on such a massive scale."

[ironman]

What does this have to do with Bush?

NORAD runs some scenarios under the former administration. The Pentagon, under the former administration, doesn't want to participate.

It's considered improbable it would ever happen, so no one pursues it.

To me it speaks to the unbelievable act. Even in the scenarios it was presumed the plans would be from a foreign country.

[dv6y]

Originally posted by pgrote@Apr 19 2004, 08:53 AM
In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon (news - web sites) - but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.

Wow. I've also maintained that hardly anyone every considered this and even fewer thought the buildings would fall that day. Hindsight is 20/20.

Still, even if someone told the powers that be at NORAD at precisely the moment of highjacking on 9/11, could anything have been done?

The one on the Pentagon perhaps, but the first 2?


I would be interested in this:

On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it "too unrealistic."

[Trigfunctions]

Originally posted by pgrote@Apr 19 2004, 09:44 AM
What does this have to do with Bush?

NORAD runs some scenarios under the former administration. The Pentagon, under the former administration, doesn't want to participate.

It's considered improbable it would ever happen, so no one pursues it.

To me it speaks to the unbelievable act. Even in the scenarios it was presumed the plans would be from a foreign country.

pgrote - I'm sorry but I think you missed some things from the article:

In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon (news - web sites) - but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.

They DID conduct exercises involving planes crashing into buildings. They ruled out the Pentagon scenario, but not other scenarios.

Meanwhile, Bush and company are still saying that no one could possibly have predicted that planes would be slammed into buildings.

A White House spokesman said Sunday that the Bush administration was not aware of the NORAD exercises.

So this is the group we have running the nation's defense - they don't know what NORAD is doing? WHY NOT???

They are either lying or inept.

[ironman]

Originally posted by dvyyyyyy@Apr 19 2004, 09:45 AM
Still, even if someone told the powers that be at NORAD at precisely the moment of highjacking on 9/11, could anything have been done?

The one on the Pentagon perhaps, but the first 2?


I would be interested in this:

On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it "too unrealistic."

Good point.

I think the first two were going to work no matter what. As soon as they were allowed on the plane it was over. It showed our inadequate security procedures at airports. Security problems that continue to today. All they have done is made air travel more annoying that anything.

Some people think the fourth plane was shot down. Go figure. It goes to show that there was enough time to do something about it.

That is the line I was drawn to as well. It really shows that almost no one even thought this was remotely possible. It does show, though, that some people conceived of it. This and the Minnesota's FBI agents notes demonstrate that very few actually thought it might happen.

Even though this happened in the former administration I can't blame them for not thinking about this as a possibility. We weren't geared towards look at things like this.

[ironman]

Originally posted by Trigfunctions@Apr 19 2004, 09:49 AM
They DID conduct exercises involving planes crashing into buildings. They ruled out the Pentagon scenario, but not other scenarios.

So this is the group we have running the nation's defense - they don't know what NORAD is doing? WHY NOT???

They are either lying or inept.

No, I didn't miss that. What you missed was that the planes were not domestic, but foreign. That's a huge difference. A plane flying in from Paris vs. one taking off from Boston and crashing in NY.

Again, I think you need to put this in perspective. Prior to 9/11 how many terrorists acts occurred on American soil in the prior 10 years? Out of those how many were caused by foreign parties?

You need to look at this in the context of the time.

[dv6y]

It would be hard to stop something like this. Barring the cockpit doors is a start.

As it stands though, I doubt it could happen again (assuming the cockpit doors are secured). No plane full of American passengers will allow a plane to be overrun by 3 guys with box-cutters (assuming that is all they had).

Now, could something else terrible happen? Yep. Subways scare the crap out of me now.

(not Jared's restaurant, though I am not fond of those either)

[ironman]

Originally posted by dvyyyyyy@Apr 19 2004, 09:58 AM
Now, could something else terrible happen? Yep. Subways scare the crap out of me now.

(not Jared's restaurant, though I am not fond of those either)

Nice edit of the Jared deal.

Basically anywhere with a large number of people are of a concern. Malls, schools, etc.

[dv6y]

Originally posted by pgrote+Apr 19 2004, 09:59 AM-->

QUOTE (pgrote @ Apr 19 2004, 09:59 AM)

i.am.js Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10765 Share Tweet #11 04-19-2004, 10:14 AM I've never seen it, but you mean something along the lines of Black Sunday? Terrorism at the super bowl. Comment Post Cancel Previous template Next English (US) Deutsch (Du) English (US) French Spanish Help Contact Us Go to top Copyright © 2003-13, TippingPitchers.com Powered by vBulletin® Version 5.7.4 Copyright © 2023 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved. All times are GMT-6. This page was generated at 01:16 PM. Working... Yes No OK OK Cancel X

[i.am.js]

I've never seen it, but you mean something along the lines of Black Sunday? Terrorism at the super bowl.