The next Lou Brock is playing in Tampa

[dv6y]

Carl Crawford: 4th full year, just turned 24 in August.

.301 BA, 15 HR, 81 RBI, 46 SB ... .331 OBP, .800 OPS

Mr Brock was a bit older when he first got 600 ABs ... When he was ~26 in 1965:

.288 BA, 16 HR, 69 RBI, 63 SBs ... .345 OBP, .790 OPS



Interesting to see Brock's career numbers. His HRs spiked early and after 1970, he never hit more than 7 in a year. Wonder if Crawford will keep hitting for power.

Lou's career stats

[Lippa]

You'd expect his power numbers to keep climbing for a few years, probably at the expense of some of his speed.

[backstop]

I think 15 HR in 1965 at Sportsman's was probably decidedly more impressive than 16 HR in 2005 in the AL...

[dv6y]

QUOTE(backstop @ Sep 30 2005, 08:59 AM) Quoted post

I think 15 HR in 1965 at Sportsman's was probably decidedly more impressive than 16 HR in 2005 in the AL...
[/b][/quote]

So your conclusion is Carl Crawford sucks?

[backstop]

Yes, obviously.

[dv6y]

QUOTE(backstop @ Sep 30 2005, 09:10 AM) Quoted post

Yes, obviously.
[/b][/quote]


hee hee

[BringBackZezel]

Crawford is one I would love for the Cards to target in the offseason, but TB has been so belligerent about trades, I can't see it happening....even though they need to move at least one OF before next season.

[Fred Garvin]

Crawford was a highly touted high school quarterback out of Houston, heavily recruited by Nebraska, among others. He is a lot bigger than Lou was and should eventually be a 30/30, if not a 40/40 guy, barring injury. When he learns to draw more walks, his OBP will skyrocket.

Lou, while with the Cubs, became one of the few players to hit one out in left center at the Polo Grounds, a 500 foot shot, but as his career progressed he seemed content to slap the ball and steal bases.

I look for them to be on opposite arcs as Crawford matures.

Here's an interesting piece on CC:

QUOTE

Copyright Times Publishing Co. Sep 27, 2005

What Carl Crawford has done offensively this season, highlighted by his bid for 200 hits, has been impressive.

Even more so because he has done it, basically, without any help from hitting coach Lee Elia or the rest of the staff.

Since a May blowup with Elia, Crawford essentially has been working on his own. And, with no disrespect to Elia, who is considered among the game's top coaches, it's hard to imagine that Crawford could have done much better.

"It was a tough year for me. Matter of fact, it was the longest year I've ever had," Crawford said. "I'm proud of myself for this year. I could easily have taken it in and folded. I battled through some things that a lot of people don't know about, and I'm just happy I was able to stay mentally tough to get through the whole season."

Both Crawford and Elia acknowledge there was an incident in the Kansas City clubhouse, though neither wants to go into detail. Elia said something Crawford considered objectionable, Crawford said he "lost trust" in Elia, and their working relationship was essentially over.

Elia said there are no hard feelings and he is still extremely proud of what Crawford has done.

"There's some times when you have to leave the nest no matter how you leave it," Elia said. "This kid has come a long way. The thing that I admire about him is that his work ethic is still premier. You've got a special one."

Crawford said the fallout made him determined to do things right on his own.

"It was just me learning myself," he said. "It was a learning experience. It was one of those situations where I did what I had to do."

Crawford still works extremely long and hard and does many of the same drills he did under Elia, just without his supervision or instruction. He watches a lot of video and usually takes teammate Damon Hollins with him to the batting cage, sometimes 1 1/2-2 hours before other teammates arrive.

Crawford said the struggles of learning to coach himself will be beneficial in the future. That's one reason he isn't concerned about potential changes in the coaching staff accompanying manager Lou Piniella's departure.

"Whoever the hitting coach is here, I won't have to confide in them," Crawford said. "I was at that point where I had to ask them things all the time and have them watch me all the time. Now I can supervise myself, and I'm so happy. You don't want to have to go ask the person all the time. And if you feel like a person's not really into it the way you are, that you are kind of nervous about information from them. Now I don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm going to have it from here."

The biggest criticism of Crawford is a lack of selectivity at the plate, evidenced by his low number of walks, 27 in 682 plate appearances, but he doesn't plan on changing that.

"People say I don't take enough pitches, but if I do that I won't ever hit the ball," he said. "I'm getting close to 200 hits and I'm not taking pitches. I'm hitting .300. So what's the problem?

"For the most part that's what makes me me. The fact that I'm aggressive at the plate and I hit like that, that's why I get that many hits. People like to say if you walk more you could probably be hitting for a higher average. I don't care about hitting for a higher average. I'm just trying to get on base and win games."

Crawford shuns talk of specific numbers but has a chance over the final six games to finish with some dazzling totals, including the Rays' first 200-hit season (he needs seven) and his first .300 average. Plus he's three runs shy of his team record of 104 and four shy of a third straight 50-steal season, and he has 15 triples, 15 homers and 81 RBIs. And he figures to keep improving.

"My game is just so raw right now," he said. "Once I put it together and iron out all those wrinkles, it will be something to see."

Thinking a 24-year-old who had limited baseball experience and instruction growing up can manage the intricacies of his swing might seem like a stretch. But Crawford can point to what he has done, and he has a good idea what he'll do during the offseason. He plans to watch video of every at-bat while working with a personal hitting coach from his Houston hometown, Sidney Hollins, and Rays minor- league hitting coordinator Steve Henderson.

"I'm not going to do nothing but get better now," Crawford said. "I'm just learning. I might work this winter on nothing but fundamentals, things like the position of my hands, rotating my hips. I've never worked on that kind of stuff. It's just been grab a bat, see the ball and hit it. I might go grab me one of those Fred McGriff hitting tapes."

MOVIN' ON UP

Carl Crawford has been making steady improvement since joining the Rays in July 2002:
[Table]
YEAR G AVG. R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB
2002 63 .259 23 67 11 6 2 30 9 41 9
2003 151 .281 80 177 18 9 5 54 26 102 55
2004 152 .296 104 185 26 19 11 55 35 81 59
2005 153 .302 101 193 33 15 15 81 27 83 46 [/b][/quote]


Despite the National opinion of the Rays as an embarrasment, they're on the verge of being scary good.

Lou is supposed to formally announce his parting of ways with the team today. Lamar will be soon to follow.

Naimoli will soon relinquish control of the team to the Sternberg group, who, it is believed, will increase the payroll. If they make some decent tweaks during he offseason, they could realistically challenge for the AL East next year, as funny as it sounds to say that.

[backstop]

I think next year is a stretch...not only will Young and Upton probably need a couple years to become really good, they need another three or four years to hopefully get Niemann, Townsend, etc. in their rotation with Kazmir. Then again, counting on pitching prospects is a good way to get burned.

[Lippa]

Can they do anything about that awful park? Watching games there is depressing. It's so dark.

[BringBackZezel]

QUOTE(backstop @ Sep 30 2005, 09:51 AM) Quoted post

I think next year is a stretch...not only will Young and Upton probably need a couple years to become really good, they need another three or four years to hopefully get Niemann, Townsend, etc. in their rotation with Kazmir. Then again, counting on pitching prospects is a good way to get burned.
[/b][/quote]
++

Raw is the word to describe their entire team.

Do they have the talent? Yes....but they're not nearly polished enough to win the AL East. You've got to be a well oiled machine to compete with the payrolls of the Yankees and Sox.

They're probably 2-3 years away from really competing....and that's IF their young players progress as expected AND they make good moves in the offseason.

[dv6y]

QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 30 2005, 09:37 AM) Quoted post

Crawford is one I would love for the Cards to target in the offseason, but TB has been so belligerent about trades, I can't see it happening....even though they need to move at least one OF before next season.
[/b][/quote]


Don't hold your breath. Only the Cubs would trade Lou Brock.

[Tazlaz]

QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 30 2005, 09:55 AM) Quoted post

and that's IF their young players progress as expected AND they make good moves in the offseason.
[/b][/quote]
they're doomed

[BringBackZezel]

QUOTE(dvyyyyyy @ Sep 30 2005, 09:56 AM) Quoted post

QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 30 2005, 09:37 AM) Quoted post

Crawford is one I would love for the Cards to target in the offseason, but TB has been so belligerent about trades, I can't see it happening....even though they need to move at least one OF before next season.
[/b][/quote]


Don't hold your breath. Only the Cubs would trade Lou Brock.
[/b][/quote]


I'm sure they'll hold onto Crawford, unless someone knocks their socks off with a deal.

The Cards don't have the chips unless they want to move Marquis AND Wainwright/Reyes.

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[backstop]

I don't think Wainwright is worth much anymore.

But the point remains that they will have Crawford, Baldelli, Gathright (who they apparently love for some reason), Gomes and probably Young to squeeze into the OF next year. I'd love to have any of those guys except Gathright...