QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 06:55 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(lazydaze @ Sep 27 2005, 07:43 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 04:32 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
[/b][/quote]
well, that's just asinine fred.
The Iraq war is the American Foreign Policy baby, and to argue differently is not only futile, but 180 degrees removed from the reality of recent history.
You may have some semblance of legitimacy if you wanted to pin it on a "neo-con" manipulation over the last few decades, but most if not all of our elected reps have trumpeted not only the evils and threat of Saddam, but ever increasing interference. Lest we not be technically factual, the sanctions, no--fly zones and the 1998/99 bombings and eventual invasion were all ramifications stemming from a cease fire agreement originally implemented in 1991.
[/b][/quote]
No. It was Bush and his boys' decision to do it the way we did it.
If the war had been sold truthfully, it would be different, but they manipulated the intelligence and shoehorned it to fit their agenda.
He's the President who bulled us into Iraq, if it's not his war, whose is it?
[/b][/quote]
++
QUOTE(dvyyyyyy @ Sep 26 2005, 11:18 AM) Quoted post
So was Tillman undermining the war on terror when he told his fellow soldiers that the war they were fighting in Iraq was illegal?
[/b][/quote]
Can we say 'friendly firing squad'?
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(kennyboyerfan @ Sep 27 2005, 12:12 PM) Quoted post
QUOTE(TTB @ Sep 27 2005, 10:07 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 06:32 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
Congress can be blamed for being spineless (no news there) for not calling the bluff, but not much more. A Congressman's main concern is re-election, and it's political suicide to be soft on commies, crime, terrorism, etc. See: Johnson, L.B.
It's the rare statesman that will stand up to the propaganda machine and tell the Emperor he's naked. To blame congress for the Iraq War is like blaming a dog for licking his balls.
[/b][/quote]
++
The buck stops with Bush.
[/b][/quote]
Wrong.
The buck stops with Michael Brown.
Get your scapegoats straight.
[/b][/quote]
He's still working for FEMA, by the way. He's just a token scapegoat, which is all that anyone will get out of this mess.
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(TTB @ Sep 27 2005, 10:07 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 06:32 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
Congress can be blamed for being spineless (no news there) for not calling the bluff, but not much more. A Congressman's main concern is re-election, and it's political suicide to be soft on commies, crime, terrorism, etc. See: Johnson, L.B.
It's the rare statesman that will stand up to the propaganda machine and tell the Emperor he's naked. To blame congress for the Iraq War is like blaming a dog for licking his balls.
[/b][/quote]
++
The buck stops with Bush.
[/b][/quote]
Wrong.
The buck stops with Michael Brown.
Get your scapegoats straight.
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 06:32 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
Congress can be blamed for being spineless (no news there) for not calling the bluff, but not much more. A Congressman's main concern is re-election, and it's political suicide to be soft on commies, crime, terrorism, etc. See: Johnson, L.B.
It's the rare statesman that will stand up to the propaganda machine and tell the Emperor he's naked. To blame congress for the Iraq War is like blaming a dog for licking his balls.
[/b][/quote]
++
The buck stops with Bush.
Leave a comment:
I just don't know what to think about the whole thing.
An oil president leading us into war to get more oil seems like a conflict of interest, but if it gives us more SUVs and hidef TVs and Tivos then what the hell, right?
Our national history is one of going out and subduing foreign markets (or assimilating them) with brute force when necessary, so why stop now?
It seems to me that the possibility of finding alternate fuels has been forsaken for short-term profits, and that certain people are getting all the profits.
I guess it's easier to get your money by convincing the grunts that the (insert derogatory term here) are evil and out to kill and ruin their country than by telling them that you need a new country estate in Canada so you can keep up with the Rockefellers.
An oil president leading us into war to get more oil seems like a conflict of interest, but if it gives us more SUVs and hidef TVs and Tivos then what the hell, right?
Our national history is one of going out and subduing foreign markets (or assimilating them) with brute force when necessary, so why stop now?
It seems to me that the possibility of finding alternate fuels has been forsaken for short-term profits, and that certain people are getting all the profits.
I guess it's easier to get your money by convincing the grunts that the (insert derogatory term here) are evil and out to kill and ruin their country than by telling them that you need a new country estate in Canada so you can keep up with the Rockefellers.
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(lazydaze @ Sep 27 2005, 07:43 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 04:32 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
[/b][/quote]
well, that's just asinine fred.
The Iraq war is the American Foreign Policy baby, and to argue differently is not only futile, but 180 degrees removed from the reality of recent history.
You may have some semblance of legitimacy if you wanted to pin it on a "neo-con" manipulation over the last few decades, but most if not all of our elected reps have trumpeted not only the evils and threat of Saddam, but ever increasing interference. Lest we not be technically factual, the sanctions, no--fly zones and the 1998/99 bombings and eventual invasion were all ramifications stemming from a cease fire agreement originally implemented in 1991.
[/b][/quote]
No. It was Bush and his boys' decision to do it the way we did it.
If the war had been sold truthfully, it would be different, but they manipulated the intelligence and shoehorned it to fit their agenda.
He's the President who bulled us into Iraq, if it's not his war, whose is it?
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(Fred Garvin @ Sep 27 2005, 04:32 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
[/b][/quote]
well, that's just asinine fred.
The Iraq war is the American Foreign Policy baby, and to argue differently is not only futile, but 180 degrees removed from the reality of recent history.
You may have some semblance of legitimacy if you wanted to pin it on a "neo-con" manipulation over the last few decades, but most if not all of our elected reps have trumpeted not only the evils and threat of Saddam, but ever increasing interference. Lest we not be technically factual, the sanctions, no--fly zones and the 1998/99 bombings and eventual invasion were all ramifications stemming from a cease fire agreement originally implemented in 1991.
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 06:05 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
[/b][/quote]
The Iraq War is Bush's baby and It's futile to argue differently.
Congress can be blamed for being spineless (no news there) for not calling the bluff, but not much more. A Congressman's main concern is re-election, and it's political suicide to be soft on commies, crime, terrorism, etc. See: Johnson, L.B.
It's the rare statesman that will stand up to the propaganda machine and tell the Emperor he's naked. To blame congress for the Iraq War is like blaming a dog for licking his balls.
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 02:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
lol
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(BringBackZezel @ Sep 27 2005, 04:44 AM) Quoted post
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
[/b][/quote]
Not exactly, since if Congress didn't agree with the war, they were the ones who were supposed to stop it. If Kerry DID disagree with the war and saw miraculously through our intelligence blunders, then he was a villain to not vote against it.
You're making excuses. Not suprising. Keep up the good fight.... I'll repeat it for you... "It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems." Jeezus.
Leave a comment:
Glad you're buring the midnight oil keeping your Constitutional pimp hand strong, Zezel.
Leave a comment:
QUOTE(MikeCorona @ Sep 27 2005, 04:38 AM) Quoted post
For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
[/b][/quote]
Factually incorrect and therefore very weak arguement.
Kerry and the rest of congress did not declare war on Iraq. They simply gave the President power to exceed his Constitutionally awarded foreign excercise rights.
Quite simply, they said, "If you want to do this, we're going to let you" Not "We declare war on Iraq"
It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your arguement, isn't it?
Leave a comment:
Hilarious. You mean people actually find it strange that a soldier would question why we were at war?! My god---EVERYONE who is sane questions war, especially those who have to actually fight it. You'll notice however, that Tillman CHOSE to fight anyway, and honored his country in the process, regardless of its leader.
Is it news that a soldier would've rather voted for a different presidential candidate? Gimme a break. For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
Its not strange to me at all that Tillman would question war when he was witnessing its affects. Every good soldier does it. Are we suprised that the mother of a dead soldier thinks, '"There have been so many discrepancies so far that it’s hard to know what to believe,” Mary Tillman said. “There are too many murky details."' Is it even more suprising that his death resulted in negligence by our OWN troops (as so many soldiers during war), yet some SF writer is trying to pawn the whole scenario into more politcal garbage?
All politics fucking sucks. It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems.
Is it news that a soldier would've rather voted for a different presidential candidate? Gimme a break. For all the Kerry fans out there who seem to be of the mind that this war is all Bush's fault, need you be reminded (those who dwell on this like a child upset at being picked last for dodgeball) that Kerry also signed off and voted to go to Iraq. The same info that Bush got which prompted him to war, also prompted Kerry to vote also to go to war. So save us the "shoulda voted for Kerry" underpinnings.
Its not strange to me at all that Tillman would question war when he was witnessing its affects. Every good soldier does it. Are we suprised that the mother of a dead soldier thinks, '"There have been so many discrepancies so far that it’s hard to know what to believe,” Mary Tillman said. “There are too many murky details."' Is it even more suprising that his death resulted in negligence by our OWN troops (as so many soldiers during war), yet some SF writer is trying to pawn the whole scenario into more politcal garbage?
All politics fucking sucks. It'd be nice if BOTH sides would realize this and stop acting like its all 'those other guys' causing all the problems.
Leave a comment:
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Leave a comment: