The race - class - education questions re Katrina

[Schwahalala]

After living through 2 major hurricanes - the one thing I can tell you is that it washes everything clean.

No joke - the most impressed I have been with mother nature is walking after Hurrincane's Gloria and Bob. Everything sparkles - being washed by 100 mph rain will do that.

So has our country been washed - and now everything sparkles and is plan to see.


What went wrong?

I heard an elected democrat say - it was just government incompetence. Totally. Nothing personal - the government would have screwed this up had their been rich or poor in harms way. There is much to that statement. The lasting legacy of the Bush administration will be - lack of planning. No working plan for Iraq - No working plan for Katrina. And obviously no working plan for addressing disasters.

However - there are other issues here that are just as important that have been laid bare and clean.

America has a socio- economic - educational - racial problem and a health care one also. A former mayor of NO said (I'm paraphrasing) America got its first look at a large number of poor people after the hurricane and didn't like what it saw. It made America uncomfortable.

Ain't that the truth. Seeing a largely Black group - pretty much left to fend for themselves in a huge time of need was a swift kick to the solar plexus. As a Black man I couldn't catch my breath - being played out in front of my eyes was a doomsday race war scenario that I had never thought I'd see. In the 60's we (Black people in East St. Louis) all had heard of the nations contingency plan in case Black's ever revolted in mass and started a race war. Confine them to the inner cities with little structure and little resources and they will eventually either kill themselves or we can kill them easily. The Superdome and the Covention Center for the first 4 days looked a lot like that.

Call me paranoid if you like - but those faces I saw had two looks. The first was we need help - but right behind that one was - what in the hell are you going to do America? A question spoken with some fear.

When help came there were additional splits. The mayor helping rich people get out of hotels faster than poor people in the superdome and convention center. People being confined to area's rather than being let out immediately.

It was at best disheartening - made all the worse buy the reports of looters and dishonesty. How in the hell do Black men allow a 7 year old to get her throat cut in a time of emergency. My Solar Plexus is now just one big hole - kicked in from the front and the back.

While later reports make me feel better about the back and the front - I personally can never trust the government. Regardless - the one thing that is for sure is that the Black race can't aford povery and ignorance any more than any other race can.

For us - it puts us in some cross hairs that are inevitable. Whether Bush and boys move faster is moot. I don't want to give them another chance and I think that should go for Blacks as well as Whites. This administration failed when failure was not an option. So have all of us who put faith in an education and social system that created a level of poverty that allowed these conditions to flourish.

[bombay]

The logistical nightmare of getting people out of the neighborhoods where they were stranded makes it hard to lay blame on anyone. How do you get your hands on an armada of airboats posthaste? The failure to get the people out of the Superdome and the convention center more quickly is a different story, and I think the reaction would have been much quicker if the people stranded were from a different social class.

[slow groove]

Originally posted by bombay@Sep 7 2005, 11:49 AM
The failure to get the people out of the Superdome and the convention center more quickly is a different story, and I think the reaction would have been much quicker if the people stranded were from a different social class.

Quoted post

Precisely. As I mentioned in another thread, despite my disillusionment with the Bush administration as it relates to issues regarding American minorities, I've found the foot-dragging regarding the Katrina tragedy to be as much about class as race. But given the predominance of poor Blacks affected by Katrina's devastation, is there really a difference?

But... I've been wrong before. <_<

[Bleacher Creature]

What would have been the reaction had the Astrodome been under siege?

[kjoe]

I believe there will be a lasting legacy of difficulty for republicans because of this. I am not saying it is fair, but I believe it will become real.

There will be a resentment toward this republican government which will be more intense, and less likely to cause a backlash, especially among southern whites. It will translate into greater voter turnout, and a very real awareness that there is a difference between republicans and democrats in what they actually believe and feel is right.

[WinstonSmith]

Originally posted by kjoe@Sep 7 2005, 05:52 PM
I believe there will be a lasting legacy of difficulty for republicans because of this. I am not saying it is fair, but I believe it will become real.

There will be a resentment toward this republican government which will be more intense, and less likely to cause a backlash, especially among southern whites. It will translate into greater voter turnout, and a very real awareness that there is a difference between republicans and democrats in what they actually believe and feel is right.

Quoted post

The polls disagree with you.

[ironman]

I can't believe people actually think this is a party thing. Shame on you.

Has a category 4 hurricane ever hit an american urban area before?

In modern times have we ever had the need to evacuate over 500,000 people in a matter of days?

Has an american urban area that is below sea level ever flooded before?

I think the answer to those questions would be no.

There are four things that lead to the issue of getting people out AFTER it hit:

1) Lack of proper planning and execution by local officials.
2) A rigid adherence to protocol by the federal government.
3) A serious lack of appreciation for how quickly american society falls apart without communication.
4) A lack of foresight by those who spend tax dollars.

The real shame in this will be if those in charge don't learn from these mistakes.

[bombay]

Who exactly are you talking to Grote?

[ironman]

Originally posted by Schwahalala@Sep 7 2005, 12:27 PM
Confine them to the inner cities with little structure and little resources and they will eventually either kill themselves or we can kill them easily. The Superdome and the Covention Center for the first 4 days looked a lot like that.

That goes past color, but to socioeconomic conditions.

It was at best disheartening - made all the worse buy the reports of looters and dishonesty. How in the hell do Black men allow a 7 year old to get her throat cut in a time of emergency. My Solar Plexus is now just one big hole - kicked in from the front and the back.

How does any man?

Regardless - the one thing that is for sure is that the Black race can't aford povery and ignorance any more than any other race can.

Hasn't this been the understand for the last fourty years? Poverty is the number one affliction in america. Generational poverty is a cultural killer.

This administration failed when failure was not an option. So have all of us who put faith in an education and social system that created a level of poverty that allowed these conditions to flourish.

Quoted post

It happened a week ago. I don't think you can judge failure in a week. The evacuation was a complete and utter disaster, but the problems you talk about have been in existence for at least 30 years. All prior adminstrations had their chances at fixing it and it's never been fixed.

Something needs to change, I agree. But the onus has to be on the people themselves and not their government. Revolution is what will work. Not administrative masturbation from administration to administration.

[kjoe]

Originally posted by WinstonSmith+Sep 7 2005, 06:01 PM-->

QUOTE(WinstonSmith @ Sep 7 2005, 06:01 PM)

[Razzy]

When you get a bunch of poor people that feel oppressed by their environment and lot in life together and stuff like this happens, civilization quickly degenerates to a third world level. It was almost animalistic watching people steal tvs and other non-essentials, hearing about killings, beatings, and shootings (especially shooting at the rescue people), and hearing that a 7 yr old kid got their throat slashed.

Maybe I am off-base here, but if I had been in that environment, as a middle class white, I would have feared for my life. I would have been completely out of my element and likely preyed upon had I been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think this may have played a part in why the mayor got those people out of the hotel. And maybe why the response was slower than it could have been. Most of the would-be rescuers were white and middle class.

But maybe the same thing would happen if a poor white city or neighborhood went through something like that. What if the mostly poor and white Carondelet and Lemay neighborhoods went through this? Would there be a bunch of looters? Would there be violence and shootings? Would I be safe there if I were caught in it?

[Schwahalala]

I had written a long reply but cut it.

Anyway my point is this.

The majority of Black people I know see the governments response as bad - and made worse because at its core there is both a racist and classist element.

Debating whether this is true or not will only leave me frustrated. I am accepting it as a given and moving on.

I don't think I can be talked out of it - and I don't think I can talk anyone out of their position.

I had hoped the education system would not have left so many without access to rationale thoughts of self preservation but I was apparently wrong.

Likewise I was wrong to think that our elderly and health care policies would also lead to some serious consequences for these populations.

The Hurricane didn't give us a reason to say who and what caused the problems.

It showed them clean and true.

Poor education -
An Administration interested far more in profit than people -
That administration shows no party affiliation at this time (all are guilty) - but in the days ahead something has to change.

[moedrabowsky]

The images speak for themselves.

We all saw what happened. Winston and his ilk can cling to polls, but kjoe and Schwa are both correct.

A sea change is coming.

[Razzy]

Schwa,

You make some interesting points. I wanted to ask you something about what you said:

In the 60's we (Black people in East St. Louis) all had heard of the nations contingency plan in case Black's ever revolted in mass and started a race war. Confine them to the inner cities with little structure and little resources and they will eventually either kill themselves or we can kill them easily.

Do you really think this is true? I dont know or have an opinion one way or the other, I am just asking. Its an interesting thought. I remember watching Boys N The Hood and that one dude was talking about all the liquor stores you find in black neighborhoods, saying that was the governments way of getting blacks to kill themselves or something like that.

[Razzy]

And yes, I can fully see the possibility that Katrina exposed all the flaws and biases of America and our government. Katrina turned our outer facade inside out, it can be said.