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  • What can a liberal say about health care

    Maybe nothing.

    Still, I thought this was a good article. I still think health issues are the democrats' best bet in 2008.

    http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../050829fa_fact

    sample paragraphs-------it is kind of long.

    One of the great mysteries of political life in the United States is why Americans are so devoted to their health-care system. Six times in the past century—during the First World War, during the Depression, during the Truman and Johnson Administrations, in the Senate in the nineteen-seventies, and during the Clinton years—efforts have been made to introduce some kind of universal health insurance, and each time the efforts have been rejected. Instead, the United States has opted for a makeshift system of increasing complexity and dysfunction. Americans spend $5,267 per capita on health care every year, almost two and half times the industrialized world’s median of $2,193; the extra spending comes to hundreds of billions of dollars a year. What does that extra spending buy us?

    Policy is driven by more than politics, however. It is equally driven by ideas, and in the past few decades a particular idea has taken hold among prominent American economists which has also been a powerful impediment to the expansion of health insurance. The idea is known as “moral hazard.” Health economists in other Western nations do not share this obsession. Nor do most Americans

    The issue about what to do with the health-care system is sometimes presented as a technical argument about the merits of one kind of coverage over another or as an ideological argument about socialized versus private medicine. It is, instead, about a few very simple questions. Do you think that this kind of redistribution of risk is a good idea? Do you think that people whose genes predispose them to depression or cancer, or whose poverty complicates asthma or diabetes, or who get hit by a drunk driver, or who have to keep their mouths closed because their teeth are rotting ought to bear a greater share of the costs of their health care than those of us who are lucky enough to escape such misfortunes?
    v



  • #2
    To me, the biggest selling point to fiscal conservatives on health care, as odious as it may be to them, is that our lack of it in this country is one of the biggest reason for the outsourcing of jobs both technical and manufacturing.

    With the health-care provision requirements required of employers nowadays, and with the costs for that rising exponentially, the most cost-effective solution is to outsource jobs to foreign countries and not worry about paying those costs.

    You want to create jobs in this country? Make healthcare at least affordable and palatable to American small businesses and startups.
    I like cheese.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by triggercut1@Aug 27 2005, 08:42 PM
      To me, the biggest selling point to fiscal conservatives on health care, as odious as it may be to them, is that our lack of it in this country is one of the biggest reason for the outsourcing of jobs both technical and manufacturing.

      With the health-care provision requirements required of employers nowadays, and with the costs for that rising exponentially, the most cost-effective solution is to outsource jobs to foreign countries and not worry about paying those costs.

      You want to create jobs in this country? Make healthcare at least affordable and palatable to American small businesses and startups.
      ++
      Turning the other cheek is better than burying the other body.

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      • #4
        who cares -

        what s important is to make sure the kids understand the other alternative theories about origins of life.

        we gotta design their science curriculum intelligently. This is important stuff.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by hansolo@Aug 27 2005, 07:59 PM
          who cares -

          what s important is to make sure the kids understand the other alternative theories about origins of life.

          we gotta design their science curriculum intelligently. This is important stuff.
          Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law ~

          A.C.

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          • #6
            We need to show a little patience in our desire for a workable health care plan for America.

            The Bush administration is on it.

            It's hard work you know.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by triggercut1@Aug 27 2005, 08:42 PM
              To me, the biggest selling point to fiscal conservatives on health care, as odious as it may be to them, is that our lack of it in this country is one of the biggest reason for the outsourcing of jobs both technical and manufacturing.

              With the health-care provision requirements required of employers nowadays, and with the costs for that rising exponentially, the most cost-effective solution is to outsource jobs to foreign countries and not worry about paying those costs.

              You want to create jobs in this country? Make healthcare at least affordable and palatable to American small businesses and startups.

              Affordable health care for big businesses wouldn't hurt either.
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              • #8
                What can a leftist say about health care, that would make sense to non-leftist?
                I'm willing to be responsible for it myself?
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                • #9
                  Tax fat people,use the money to provide medical insurance in some form....make it understood that this insurance doesn`t buy you all the bells and whistles you may get with private insurance.


                  But,be sure to tax fat people.
                  "There is an old saying that goes 'no matter how good you are, there is always someone better.' That someone is me." - Chiun

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                  • #10
                    I'm a liberal.
                    I think while people should get a fair return on their investments, there are certain things where 'enough profit is enough'...health care providers have a responsibility to society.

                    I would maybe feel a bit more sympathy for them if they hadn't got in this mess by playing blackjack with their premium money.
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                    • #11
                      I'm a liberal
                      I think that scarcity and risk dictates "cost" and not so much greed.
                      Health care providers have voluntarily offered their life and services in order to better ours. No-one is born a doctor. Everyone can choose to be one.

                      Some do, some don't. How that translates into a responsibility to society is beyond me. It would seem to me, dickering over compensation for their voluntary services and expertise can be counter productive to the care we desire.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by triggercut1@Aug 27 2005, 07:42 PM
                        To me, the biggest selling point to fiscal conservatives on health care, as odious as it may be to them, is that our lack of it in this country is one of the biggest reason for the outsourcing of jobs both technical and manufacturing.

                        With the health-care provision requirements required of employers nowadays, and with the costs for that rising exponentially, the most cost-effective solution is to outsource jobs to foreign countries and not worry about paying those costs.

                        You want to create jobs in this country? Make healthcare at least affordable and palatable to American small businesses and startups.
                        Outsourcing is a myth. THe US is a net importer of jobs, and if all outsourcing was eliminated today, we'd suffer more than any other country. Look it up at the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lazydaze@Sep 1 2005, 12:02 PM
                          I'm a liberal
                          I think that scarcity and risk dictates "cost" and not so much greed.
                          Health care providers have voluntarily offered their life and services in order to better ours. No-one is born a doctor. Everyone can choose to be one.

                          Some do, some don't. How that translates into a responsibility to society is beyond me. It would seem to me, dickering over compensation for their voluntary services and expertise can be counter productive to the care we desire.
                          it's not the doctors, it's the middlemen who pay the doctors.

                          the same ones who had to jack up premiums because they speculated on the stock market, and lost.
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                          • #14
                            In brief: the current system of employer-based health care is not only inadequate to meet everyone's needs, but untenable. Corporations will start eliminating or cutting back health care as costs continue to spiral. The center will not hold. So eventually we will have to either go to a more European model of national health service, or get used to inferior health care.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Airshark+Sep 1 2005, 01:04 PM-->
                              QUOTE(Airshark @ Sep 1 2005, 01:04 PM)
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