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  • Herbert: Don't recruits deserve the truth?

    Truth in Recruiting

    By BOB HERBERT

    Most Americans will tell you that they believe in honest, truthful, straightforward, ethical behavior.

    So here's a question: Should people who are being recruited into the armed forces be told the truth about the risks they are likely to face if they agree to sign up and put on a uniform?

    Right now, that is not happening. Recruiters desperate for warm bodies to be shipped to Iraq are prowling selected high schools and neighborhoods across the country with sales pitches that touch on everything but the possibility of being maimed or killed in combat.

    The recruiters themselves are under enormous pressure from higher-ups who are watching crucial components of the all-volunteer military buckle under the strain of a war that was supposed to have been won in a jiffy, but instead just goes on and on.

    So the teenagers who are the prime targets for recruitment are being told just about anything to ward off whatever misgivings they may have. Need money for college? No problem. You want to go to a nice place? Certainly. Maybe even Hawaii.

    A young man who recently registered, as required, with the Selective Service System received an upbeat brochure in the mail touting the military's 30 days of annual "paid vacation," its free medical and dental care, its "competitive retirement" benefits and its "home loan program."

    There was no mention of combat, or what it's like to walk the corridors and the grounds of the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, where you'll see a tragic, unending parade of young men and women struggling to move about despite their paralysis, or with one, two or three limbs missing.

    I am not at all opposed to the military. I was in the Army for two years, and I've personally known many people who have had long and honorable careers in the service. I've known many men and women who made almost unimaginable sacrifices - including, in some cases, giving up their lives - while in uniform.

    But I think it is precisely because the stakes are so high that we should be straight with potential recruits. Instead we present them with a lollipopped, sugarcoated, fantasyland version of what life in the military is like.

    In a segment on PBS's "NewsHour" last December, an Army recruiter said: "I joined because I was seeking some adventure, all right? And I've been to a lot of different countries - Athens, Greece, Ireland, Rome. Been to Egypt twice, to the pyramids. All sorts of fun stuff."

    The Army actually has an online video game that it likes to brag is one of the "top five" on the Web. Geared to children as young as 13, it has more than five million registered players.

    But war is not a game. Getting your face blown off is not fun. The fundamental task of the military is to fight and kill the enemies of the United States, and fighting and killing is a grotesquely brutal experience. Potential recruits should be told the truth about what is expected of them, and what the risks are. And they should be told why it's a good idea for them to take those risks. If that results in too few people signing up for the military, the country is left with a couple of other options:

    Stop fighting unnecessary wars, or reinstate the draft.

    Instead, the military and its harried recruiters are preying more and more on youngsters who are especially vulnerable and impressionable, and they're doing it by creating a patently false impression of what life in the wartime military is like.

    The youngsters recruited most relentlessly are those from small towns, rural areas and impoverished urban neighborhoods. They are kids who are not well-to-do, and who don't have much of a plan for their future. The military, with its uniforms, its slick ads and its video games, can look very good to these unsophisticated youngsters.

    With a series of television ads, the Army is also trying to win over what it calls the "influencers," the parents and other adults who have been counseling youngsters to stay away from the military. That campaign was packaged by the Leo Burnett agency, which has the following to say about itself:

    "Leo Burnett USA creates ideas that inspire enduring belief for many of the world's most valuable brands and most successful marketers, including McDonald's, Disney, Procter & Gamble, Marlboro, Altoids, Heinz, Kellogg, Nintendo and the U.S. Army."


    E-mail: [email protected]
    June 9, 1973 - The day athletic perfection was defined.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Kva...eature=related

  • #2
    And this is different from 25-30 years ago?

    Dat's right!

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    • #3
      I think "Truth in Recruiting" would have been when shit loads of Kids from NYC and many other places joined the military because they wanted to avenge the US in regard to 9-11.
      They should have been told if they join that they would be going to Iraq, and that they had nothing to do with 9-11.
      Then they could claim it's an all volunteer army, and that we shouldn't bitch about them going to war.
      Be passionate about what you believe in, or why bother.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by madyaks@Aug 22 2005, 01:04 PM
        I think "Truth in Recruiting" would have been when shit loads of Kids from NYC and many other places joined the military because they wanted to avenge the US in regard to 9-11.
        They should have been told if they join that they would be going to Iraq, and that they had nothing to do with 9-11.
        Then they could claim it's an all volunteer army, and that we shouldn't bitch about them going to war.
        Yaks...it's been the same for every volunteer since at least Korea...my dad didn't sign up in 1949 to go to Korea ...my friends didn't sign up in 1979 to go to Grenada...so bitch all you want, but they made their choices to join the military, and guess what? The chance is always there to get shot and killed serving your country. Ask any vet.

        Dat's right!

        Official Lounge Dog
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Rdog3933@Aug 22 2005, 07:46 AM
          And this is different from 25-30 years ago?
          Future vice-Presidents are no longer able to take 5 deferments for other priorities?
          From this day forward, I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death.

          For more than 20 years I have endeavored-indeed, I have struggled-along with a majority of this Court, to develop procedural & substantive rules that would lend more than the mere appearance of fairness to the death penalty endeavor.


          I feel morally and intellectually obligated simply to concede that the death penalty experiment has failed.

          The path the Court has chosen lessens us all. I dissent.

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          • #6
            These assumptions, started awhile back but most prominently kicked up lately by Cindy and Herbert, that parents "send their kids" or "truth in recruiting" are the most ridiculous assertions I've ever heard.

            Honestly, I have no sympathy for people who enter a contract where THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE TO KILL PEOPLE AND TO BE KILLED THEMSELVES and welp, don't do any research!

            Has anyone ever confused the US military with a company that operates bake sales? Is Herbert's use of the word "unsophisticated" a euphemism for stupid? People from the coh-ntry manage to succeed just fine in Uncle Sam's Armed Forces, thank you, NY city slicker.

            I don't care if you're from Mars, if you go into a contract like that without doing an intense amount of due diligence, you're a dumbass.

            And you can't fix stupid.

            Herbert, consistently, offers solutions to fix stupid.
            The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. -TR

            OFFICIAL LOUNGE SPONSOR OF NEW YORK CITY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THE MARYLAND TERRAPINS

            Madyaks2 Thought Of The Day: I'm just as dumb as madyaks1.

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            • #7
              What a freaking ID-10-Tango. I went into the Marines in the early 90's knowing that my first roll was as a rifleman and then my MOS was my secondary job. I knew I could be sent off somewhere and in fact I wanted to go off to places. That was part of the reason I joined. Other reasons I joined was that college was not my cup of tea at that time so I figured I'd get some money for college down the road, get into a field that was suited for me (I am working in the field that I was in the Marines doing), make some good friends and wear the best damn dress uniform in the land.

              Just like with every single job that you are interested in, you want to know the benefits. With the military, you get the medical/dental, 30 days vacation a year, retirement and so on. That is part of the job of the recruiter. They are an HR person and they need to tell the perks of the place.

              The fundamental task as he says is not to "fight and kill the enemies of the United States". That is not the intention of every single soldier, airman, sailor and Marine. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was something about defending the country and alies from all enemies that are foreign or domestic. No matter if I was on my soil or elsewhere else.
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              • #8
                I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

                Come on, jarhead, everybody learns that!!

                Next thing you'll be telling me is that you forgot the Marine Corps Hymn. Even the swabbies have to learn that.
                The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. -TR

                OFFICIAL LOUNGE SPONSOR OF NEW YORK CITY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THE MARYLAND TERRAPINS

                Madyaks2 Thought Of The Day: I'm just as dumb as madyaks1.

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                • #9
                  Never heard that before.

                  I knew the MC Hymn before I was in due to the fact that part of the first verse of the song was done by my 8th great Uncle, Presley O'Bannon
                  Sponsor of:
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                  Kolten Wong & the arch in the outfield grass at Busch Stadium
                  5-29-14-House77 turns down offer of free beer from me

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rdog3933+Aug 22 2005, 11:28 PM-->
                    QUOTE(Rdog3933 @ Aug 22 2005, 11:28 PM)

                  • #11
                    Originally posted by lasvegasreb@Aug 22 2005, 11:46 PM
                    These assumptions, started awhile back but most prominently kicked up lately by Cindy and Herbert, that parents "send their kids" or "truth in recruiting" are the most ridiculous assertions I've ever heard.

                    Honestly, I have no sympathy for people who enter a contract where THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE TO KILL PEOPLE AND TO BE KILLED THEMSELVES and welp, don't do any research!

                    Has anyone ever confused the US military with a company that operates bake sales? Is Herbert's use of the word "unsophisticated" a euphemism for stupid? People from the coh-ntry manage to succeed just fine in Uncle Sam's Armed Forces, thank you, NY city slicker.

                    I don't care if you're from Mars, if you go into a contract like that without doing an intense amount of due diligence, you're a dumbass.

                    And you can't fix stupid.

                    Herbert, consistently, offers solutions to fix stupid.
                    By "stupid" you are referring to trust in the president not to lie sending them to their deaths in so doing, right?
                    Damn these electric sex pants!

                    26+31+34+42+44+46+64+67+82+06 = 10

                    Bring back the death penalty for corporations!

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                    • #12
                      "Son, you are signing your life away. Simple as that. From this day forward, you make no decisions for yourself. You have no opinions. You do as your told. You are going to serve, and serve in the capacity Uncle Sam dictates, until he decides he's done with you. And if he does need you in the future, you better show up when called."

                      Moon

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                      • #13
                        I was driving from one event to another the other day, and I got a call from an Iranian woman who is now a citizen of the United States, and who has been in the US for 30 years, is married to an American, has a 5 year old son, and a brother who has been in prison for 9 months for wanting to serve America.

                        My new Iranian/American friend, I will call her Susie, since her family is in danger of reprisal, told me that her brother signed up for the National Guard to give something back to the country that he has adopted as his own. He was lied to by his recruiter, who said he could have his student loans paid off and become an American citizen within a year. He also has severe learning disabilities and his recruiter falsified his test scores and his application. Susie’s brother was told that the mistakes would be "corrected" before the application was turned in. Like my KIA son, Casey, Susie’s brother naïvely trusted his recruiter.

                        One day, Susie’s brother, who was at that time in training as a chemical specialist, was sitting in class, when FBI agents came in and hauled him off to prison. He was told it was because he went to Iran twice after 9/11 (his country of birth and his family’s country), and because he falsified his application to get in the National Guard. Susie’s brother thought going into the National Guard was going to be a good and admirable thing, and he was deceived and betrayed. He didn’t get his student loans paid off, he didn’t get citizenship, but he did get thrown in jail without proper legal representation. Susie called her state’s senators to see if they could help her and her brother and she was told to quit making trouble, or her entire family would be investigated.
                        Where Do I Live? by Cindy Sheehan
                        Damn these electric sex pants!

                        26+31+34+42+44+46+64+67+82+06 = 10

                        Bring back the death penalty for corporations!

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by dredbyrd+Aug 23 2005, 06:02 AM-->
                          QUOTE(dredbyrd @ Aug 23 2005, 06:02 AM)

                        • #15
                          Originally posted by lazydaze+Aug 23 2005, 07:14 AM-->
                          QUOTE(lazydaze @ Aug 23 2005, 07:14 AM)
                          Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 06:02 AM
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