Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"I'm all for strength, when appropriate"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "I'm all for strength, when appropriate"

    Posted Sunday, March 7, 2004
    As he flew to Florida the morning after Super Tuesday, Senator John Kerry spoke to TIME's Perry Bacon Jr., Lisa Beyer and Karen Tumulty:

    TIME: What would you have done about Iraq had you been the President?
    KERRY: If I had been the President, I might have gone to war but not the way the President did. It might have been only because we had exhausted the remedies of inspections, only because we had to—because it was the only way to enforce the disarmament.

    TIME: But it turns out there was nothing to disarm.
    KERRY: Well, if we had kept on inspecting properly and gone through the process appropriately, we might have avoided almost a $200 billion expenditure, the loss of lives and the scorn of the world and the breaking of so many relationships.

    TIME: Would you say your position on Iraq is a) it was a mistaken war; b ) it was a necessary war fought in a bad way; or c) fill in the blank?
    KERRY: I think George Bush rushed to war without exhausting the remedies available to him, without exhausting the diplomacy necessary to put the U.S. in the strongest position possible, without pulling together the logistics and the plan to shore up Iraq immediately and effectively.

    TIME: And you as Commander in Chief would not have made these mistakes but would have gone to war?
    KERRY: I didn't say that.

    TIME: I'm asking.
    KERRY: I can't tell you.

    TIME: Might the war have been avoided?
    KERRY: Yes.

    TIME: Through inspections?
    KERRY: It's possible. It's not a certainty, but it's possible. I'm not going to tell you hypothetically when you've reached the point of exhaustion that you have to [use force] and your intelligence is good enough that it tells you you've reached that moment. But I can tell you this: I would have asked a lot of questions they didn't. I would have tried to do a lot of diplomacy they didn't.

    TIME: You would have asked more questions about the quality of the intelligence?
    KERRY: Yes. If I had known that [Iraqi exile leader Ahmed] Chalabi was somebody they were relying on, I would have had serious doubts. And the fact that we learn after the fact that that is one of their sources disturbs me enormously.

    TIME: As a Senator, could you not have asked that question?
    KERRY: We asked. They said, Well, we can't tell you who the sources are. They give you this gobbledygook. I went over to the Pentagon. I saw the photographs. They told us specifically what was happening in certain buildings. It wasn't.

    TIME: You were misled?
    KERRY: Certainly by somebody. The intelligence clearly was wrong, fundamentally flawed. Look, the British were able to do a two-month analysis of what happened to their intelligence. This Administration wants to put it off to 2005. It's a national-security issue to know what happened to our intelligence. We ought to know now.

    TIME: Obviously it's good that Saddam is out of power. Was bringing him down worth the cost?
    KERRY: If there are no weapons of mass destruction— and we may yet find some—then this is a war that was fought on false pretenses, because that was the justification to the American people, to the Congress, to the world, and that was clearly the frame of my vote of consent. I said it as clearly as you can in my speech. I suggested that all the evils of Saddam Hussein alone were not a cause to go to war.

    TIME: So, if we don't find WMD, the war wasn't worth the costs? That's a yes?
    KERRY: No, I think you can still—wait, no. You can't—that's not a fair question, and I'll tell you why. You can wind up successful in transforming Iraq and changing the dynamics, and that may make it worth it, but that doesn't mean [transforming Iraq] was the cause [that provided the] legitimacy to go. You have to have that distinction.

    TIME: You've said the foreign policy of triumphalism fuels the fire of jihadists. Is it possible the U.S. show of force in Iraq tempers the fire of jihadists?
    KERRY: I'm all for strength when appropriate, and, you bet, there are a lot of countries in the Middle East that understand strength, and it's a very important message. But in my judgment, the way it was applied this time, it has encouraged street-level anger, and I have been told by people it encourages the recruitment of terrorists. I mean, look, even Rumsfeld's own memo underscores that they haven't discovered how to stem the tide of recruitment.

    TIME: Why would internationalizing the occupation of Iraq be a more effective strategy for stabilizing the country?
    KERRY: The legitimacy of the governing process that emerges from an essentially American process is always subject to greater questioning than one that is developed with broader, global consent.

    TIME: How do you bring in others?
    KERRY: I spent the time to go to the U.N. and sit with the Security Council before the vote, because I wanted to ascertain what their real state of mind was and whether or not they would be prepared to enforce the resolution, provide troops, whether or not they took it seriously, whether or not they would share costs and burden, and I came away convinced after a two-hour conversation, a lot of questions, that they would.

    TIME: You've criticized the pre-emptive nature of the Bush doctrine.
    KERRY: Let me emphasize: I'll pre-empt where necessary. We are always entitled to do that under the Charter of the U.N., which gives the right of self-defense of a nation. We've always had a doctrine of pre-emption contained in first strike throughout the cold war. So I understand that. It's the extension of it by the Bush Administration to remove a person they don't like that contravenes that.
    Un-Official Sponsor of Randy Choate and Kevin Siegrist

  • #2
    GOONEY FACED LIAR
    Official Sponsor of Jim Edmonds & John Smoltz

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JackSparrow@Mar 19 2004, 08:28 AM
      GOONEY FACED LIAR
      where was that punchy wit when you were on the pressbox?
      Are you on the list?

      Comment


      • #4

        KERRY: I'm all for strength when appropriate, and, you bet, there are a lot of countries in the Middle East that understand strength, and it's a very important message. But in my judgment, the way it was applied this time, it has encouraged street-level anger, and I have been told by people it encourages the recruitment of terrorists. I mean, look, even Rumsfeld's own memo underscores that they haven't discovered how to stem the tide of recruitment.

        Well said, John.
        Dude. Can. Fly.

        Comment


        • #5
          dvy,

          You seem to be the one most critical of holding onto the claim of wmd. What do you make of his assertion that some may still be found?

          His this an example of him just covering all bases, or is this an indicator of the true difficulties and uncertainties of intelligence, that no one today is any more certain than previously?
          Un-Official Sponsor of Randy Choate and Kevin Siegrist

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lazydaze@Mar 19 2004, 08:37 AM
            dvy,

            You seem to be the one most critical of holding onto the claim of wmd. What do you make of his assertion that some may still be found?

            His this an example of him just covering all bases, or is this an indicator of the true difficulties and uncertainties of intelligence, that no one today is any more certain than previously?
            I think, lazy, that it's political, that while he is (like me) 100% sure there aren't any to be found he doesn't want the quote thrown in his face.

            OR, if it's not political, another alternative is that he might be still trying to give the president and the presenters of the intel briefing that swayed Congress' vote the benefit of the doubt that they couldn't have been that wrong.

            I had no idea you were still holding on to the fact that they might find them, lazy. I thought the David Kay testimony ended that for most everyone except maybe Rumsfeld, who of course must hold out hope. (Note: not meaning that as a flame, just a question.)

            But yeah, that statement surprised me. CYA is the leading possibility.

            What I again think Kerry touches on is what many of us have said - we didn't believe there was enough urgency to the situation to forego the coalition approach that Bush's father used though we were TOLD there was the need for urgency. In hindsight, clearly there wasn't. It's a big deal to be wrong and start a war, but it's a much bigger deal to essentially go it alone when you are wrong.
            Dude. Can. Fly.

            Comment


            • #7
              "I'm all for Kerry, except when its time to vote for president"

              -- AC

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Arch Card@Mar 19 2004, 08:51 AM
                "I'm all for Kerry, except when its time to vote for president"

                -- AC
                If even that were true it would be a step forward.
                Dude. Can. Fly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Really, dvyyyy, Kerry is the perfect Senator from Massachussets.

                  He's perfect right where he is currently.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arch Card@Mar 19 2004, 08:53 AM
                    Really, dvyyyy, Kerry is the perfect Senator from Massachussets.

                    He's perfect right where he is currently.
                    I know the feeling.

                    For example, I thought John Ashcroft was the perfect defeated senator candidate sitting on his ass, unemployed in Missouri, as the voters demanded. But Bush, the uniter, had other ideas.
                    Dude. Can. Fly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ashcroft is the perfect sheriff for right now.

                      One bad azz.

                      Ya gotta love this guy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I had no idea you were still holding on to the fact that they might find them, lazy. I thought the David Kay testimony ended that for most everyone except maybe Rumsfeld, who of course must hold out hope. (Note: not meaning that as a flame, just a question.)

                        But yeah, that statement surprised me. CYA is the leading possibility.
                        no flame takin.

                        I am not sure that I am still holding onto the fact that they might find them. I mean, again, to me, stockpiles weren’t my biggest concern. I can empathize with those that feel mislead by the pre-war propaganda, and they will have an opportunity to rectify that in November.

                        Obviously, If Saddam did not destroy his weapons, he ahs had 12 years to conceal them, they could be hidden anywhere.


                        What I again think Kerry touches on is what many of us have said - we didn't believe there was enough urgency to the situation to forego the coalition approach that Bush's father used though we were TOLD there was the need for urgency. In hindsight, clearly there wasn't. It's a big deal to be wrong and start a war, but it's a much bigger deal to essentially go it alone when you are wrong.
                        Well, I am not sure that if you believe it is wrong, it is any different or better to have France or Yemen on our side. Wrong is wrong, and right is right, regardless of participants.
                        Un-Official Sponsor of Randy Choate and Kevin Siegrist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good old John Kerry. It would be nice to have a President smart enough to realize that sometimes it's right to show force, and sometimes it's right to calm the fuck down and take a deep breath.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            >>sure there aren't any to be found he doesn't want the quote thrown in his face.<<

                            He's on both sides - again.
                            And, frankly, it has never occured to me that "winning" a debate is important, or that I should be hurt when someone like Airshark or kah, among others (for whom winning a pseudo debate or declaring intellectual superiority over invisible others is obviously very important) ridicule me.

                            -The Artist formerly known as King in KC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dvyyyyyy@Mar 19 2004, 08:45 AM
                              What I again think Kerry touches on is what many of us have said - we didn't believe there was enough urgency to the situation to forego the coalition approach that Bush's father used...
                              Thinking back, isn't it incredible that Bush 41 had to work so hard to put together a coalition to protect a U.N. member nation?

                              That says a lot about the U.N. And it's why I don't worry too much about what a lot of those countries think

                              TIME: So, if we don't find WMD, the war wasn't worth the costs? That's a yes?
                              KERRY: No, I think you can still—wait, no. You can't—that's not a fair question, and I'll tell you why. You can wind up successful in transforming Iraq and changing the dynamics, and that may make it worth it, but that doesn't mean [transforming Iraq] was the cause [that provided the] legitimacy to go. You have to have that distinction.
                              I'm surprised that no one has discussed this. The anti-Bush crowd has been pretty unwilling to acknowledge that there were other good reasons for the war besides WMDs. We all know Bush emphasized WMDs, but there were other good reasons outlined by many people at the time. Now, here we have Kerry acknowledging that the other reasons make it worth it! He just doesn't like that Bush focused on WMDs.
                              "Need some wood?" -- George W. Bush, October 8, 2004

                              "Historians will judge if this war is just, not your punk ass." -- Dave Glover, December 8, 2004

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X