Why the hell did the jewish thread get locked?

[lazydaze]

I call bullshit...


of course my opinion means nothing so...


We should not be afraid to discuss sensitive topics. I did not see much flaming in that thread. Just differing opinions.

[Bleacher Creature]

lazy,

The flames weren't visable, but, I give the moderator credit to heading off something that may have gotten messy.

I don't mind mature and honest discussions about race, religion, and ethnic matters, but, I do get tired of the rash over generalizations that are so often tossed out in these matters.

[lazydaze]

Kev

I undertand were you are coming from, but differing opinions, as crazy as they may seem are what makes the world go round.

The reason social obstacles are so hard to overcome in America is becuase we don't talk about things that could hurt peoples feelings.

Well, if your sensitive, get over it.


I pick out 2 posters that weret trolls in that thread. Neither had anything to add, just wanted to be argumentitive.

SluBlu and Kah. offered nothing other than talking about banning and snuffing. Punish them, not the rest of us that were following, jhanke and torch.






mikesmith in the hizzouse

[steveInebriated]

One thing you surely know by now is that 007 and I (and the anonymous Moderators) are very lenient when it comes to letting everyone say what they want to. We were not trying to censor anyone's posts, or even delete the thread - it was locked because of where it could potentially go. We felt that as a precaution, it would probably be best to nip it in the bud now, rather than regret not doing it if it got out of hand -- and with a subject as sensitive as the Holocaust, it definitely had the potential.

[mcohen]

Originally posted by steveInebriated@Feb 21 2004, 10:40 AM
One thing you surely know by now is that 007 and I (and the anonymous Moderators) are very lenient when it comes to letting everyone say what they want to. We were not trying to censor anyone's posts, or even delete the thread - it was locked because of where it could potentially go. We felt that as a precaution, it would probably be best to nip it in the bud now, rather than regret not doing it if it got out of hand -- and with a subject as sensitive as the Holocaust, it definitely had the potential.

I definitely understand your sentiment. But, I think this kind of thing only feeds the fire even MORE for people who say the Holocaust is overplayed. What's wrong with talking about it? By blocking conversation about it, you're basically saying that the Holocaust is so sensitive and so unique, even 60 years after the fact, that nobody should be able to talk about it. And I think THAT'S where you get into serious problems, because if we're going to learn from the Holocaust, you CAN'T see it as something so different from ordinary human society that we can't even talk about it. There were things about it that, luckily, were unique, and that's why it's considered so terrible, but most of the people involved were "ordinary men" (as one of the most popular books on the subject, by that title, says).

As for the thread itself...I definitely saw some things on there that were outright lies (most of which were called out already), but I still thought it would have been interesting to get into the discussion about this. And I think by leaving the posts that were there and not giving anyone a chance to reply further, that's even worse in some ways than deleting it. (I'm not saying that you SHOULD delete it, though...)

[kah2523]

Originally posted by lazydaze@Feb 21 2004, 09:03 AM
I pick out 2 posters that weret trolls in that thread. Neither had anything to add, just wanted to be argumentitive.

SluBlu and Kah. offered nothing other than talking about banning and snuffing. Punish them, not the rest of us that were following, jhanke and torch.

So, lazydaze, I guess racist lies don't bother you very much?

[kah2523]

Originally posted by mcohen@Feb 21 2004, 11:17 AM
By blocking conversation about it, you're basically saying that the Holocaust is so sensitive and so unique, even 60 years after the fact, that nobody should be able to talk about it.

Talking about it is fine. Spreading racist anti-Semitic lies is not.

[Damtoft]

Kah,

Intent on proving Daze correct, eh?

Moderating is a tricky business.

[mcohen]

Originally posted by kah2523@Feb 21 2004, 11:21 AM
Talking about it is fine. Spreading racist anti-Semitic lies is not.

Definitely, that's true. Actually, your posts were the ones I was talking about when I said that people HAD called out Torch's outright lies. But by leaving the thread up without more of an opportunity for the discussion to continue, and for you (and me and others) to challenge what Torch (and others) were saying so people realize he's wrong, I think that just makes things worse.

And Damtoft, are you saying Kah was WRONG for pointing out that Torch was spouting some lies that are only really believed by Holocaust deniers? If you are, shut the fuck up. Of course, it's more likely that you're just doing your usual thing of disagreeing with anything Kah says no matter what it is....

[Damtoft]

I only disagree with Kah when he's wrong.

Broken clocks are right twice daily.

That thread may have been Kah's broken clock moment.

[lazydaze]

Originally posted by mcohen+Feb 21 2004, 11:50 AM-->

QUOTE(mcohen @ Feb 21 2004, 11:50 AM)

[King]

Originally posted by mcohen@Feb 21 2004, 11:17 AM

I definitely understand your sentiment. But, I think this kind of thing only feeds the fire even MORE for people who say the Holocaust is overplayed. What's wrong with talking about it? By blocking conversation about it, you're basically saying that the Holocaust is so sensitive and so unique, even 60 years after the fact, that nobody should be able to talk about it. And I think THAT'S where you get into serious problems, because if we're going to learn from the Holocaust, you CAN'T see it as something so different from ordinary human society that we can't even talk about it. There were things about it that, luckily, were unique, and that's why it's considered so terrible, but most of the people involved were "ordinary men" (as one of the most popular books on the subject, by that title, says).

As for the thread itself...I definitely saw some things on there that were outright lies (most of which were called out already), but I still thought it would have been interesting to get into the discussion about this. And I think by leaving the posts that were there and not giving anyone a chance to reply further, that's even worse in some ways than deleting it. (I'm not saying that you SHOULD delete it, though...)

This is a very sensible approach. I have to believe there are many who agree with mcohen.

Why is just such an approach so difficult for others to accept?

[kah2523]

It's troubling that so many people are OK with racist propaganda.

[jhanke]

Originally posted by King in KC@Feb 21 2004, 12:14 PM
This is a very sensible approach. I have to believe there are many who agree with mcohen.

Why is just such an approach so difficult for others to accept?

I think it is because many people take this (and many other) subject way too personaly. That doesn't mean they were effected in any way just that they get defecsive when they feel attacked. This happens on both sides, Kah was genuinly (sp)offended by the falshoods being spread in the thread by torch and called him on it as did myself and others. The problem comes not when we disagree, but when we get personal. I can either chose to tell Damtov that i think he is wrong, or i can call him a fucking liar. One he may listen to the other not at all. Some in the thread took the fucking liar point and turned Torch and others off from being able ot have a discussion. I think (and he can back me up here if i am right) that that is why 007 locked the thread. It got too personal, it was not the subject but the approach some of us took. Hey the guy pissed me off too, and i wanted to scorch him but knew that that would not work. We seem to enjoy this bickering when it is about politics or sports but mabey this is too sensitive a subject oto turn it into a pissing contest.

[madyaks]

Kah, I usually agree with you around 99% of the time, but in this case I am not sure Torch was being racist. I think he actually believed the info he was given at some point.
And his remarks about how we seem to recognize the Holocaust much more than we do what this country did to The American Indian, and to people from Africa are remarks that I think have merit.

I also think the thread being locked was a good thing, because it was clear the issues were not going to be debated, but just yelled about.

Without having a long discussion with Torch I see his remarks as I do the remarks made by Dusty Baker, I think at some point someone told Dusty that it is medical science that people with dark skin do better in the heat, and he took it as fact. Does that make Dusty Racist? Gullible? I don't know, but I take him at his word until proved otherwise that he honestly thought what he was saying was science rather than racist hate.

When any thread in here becomes just yelling or hate oriented it should be locked, if people want to honestly debate Hitler good or bad is fine with me, but where that thread was headed... it was cool to lock.