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  • Bush losing support from Military families

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think Bush and the chicken-hawks in his administration treat the military with contempt. Sounds like more and more in the military - and their families - agree.

    http://www.salon.com/politics/war_ro...tml/index.html
    Knight-Ridder takes a look at how the "war president" is faring with military families and concludes that "as guerrilla warfare drags on in [Afghanistan and Iraq], casualties mount and the Army is stretched ever thinner, many voters in or affiliated with the military are no longer saluting the commander in chief. The failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or evidence that Saddam Hussein was in league with al-Qaida, lengthy deployments of active-duty soldiers and reservists and proposed cuts in veterans' benefits and perks to military families are threatening to erode Bush's once-strong support among military voters."


    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...on/8152531.htm
    WASHINGTON - When the Bush campaign asked James McKinnon to co-chair its veterans steering committee in New Hampshire - a job he held in 2000 - the 56-year-old Vietnam veteran respectfully, but firmly, said no.

    "I basically told them I was disappointed in his support of veterans," said McKinnon, who served two tours in Vietnam with the Coast Guard. "He's killing the active-duty military. ... Look at the reserves call-ups for Iraq, the hardships. The National Guard - the state militia - is being used improperly. I took the president at his word on Iraq, and now you can't find a single report to back up or substantiate weapons of mass destruction."
    ....
    Bush also alienated veterans organizations when he proposed to increase Veterans Administration health-care spending in his 2005 budget by only 4 percent, half of which would be generated by new fees and higher drug co-payments.

    "It is further (proof) that veterans are no longer a priority with this administration," Edward S. Banas, the commander in chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, said last month.
    2005 Mandatory Loyalty Oath: I love America, our troops, baseball, Moms, and certain pies. I want no harm to come to any of those institutions, nor do I take any glee in their demise.

  • #2
    Here's the website of the organization listed in the article:
    http://www.mfso.org/

    Military Families Speak Out is an organization of people who are opposed to war in Iraq and who have relatives or loved ones in the military. We were formed in November of 2002 and have contacts with military families throughout the United States, and in other countries around the world.

    As people with family members and loved ones in the military, we have both a special need and a unique role to play in speaking out against war in Iraq. It is our loved ones who are, or have been, or will be on the battlefront. It is our loved ones who are risking injury and death. It is our loved ones who are returning scarred from their experiences. It is our loved ones who will have to live with the injuries and deaths among innocent Iraqi civilians.

    This is so brutal I feel uncomfortable posting it:
    On November 2nd, 2003, Brian Slavenas and 15 others were killed when the Chinook helicopter he was flying crashed in Iraq. Rosemarie Dietz Slavenas, Brian's mother, wrote this letter to President Bush:

    February 2, 2004
    Rockford, Illinois

    George Bush
    1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
    Washington, D.C. 20502-4259

    Dear Mr. Bush,

    In response to head weapons inspector David Kay's statement that he believes there are and were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (Associated Press), you are quoted as saying, "There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein was a grave and gathering threat to America and the world is better off without him."

    My beloved son Brian died for your red herring in the sand. He was an honorable, restrained, talented, caring man, and the world would be better off with him alive and well. He resigned his commission in the Illinois National Guard when assigned to duty in Iraq as a matter of conscience. He served nonetheless, and he bled for 1/2 hour in the desert sand before any help arrived, though the helicopter he was flying was only 5 minutes off the ground when it crashed, according to witnesses.

    After his death, I received two letters from him telling me he hoped to be home in April, 2004. On Christmas day I visited his grave. He did not give his life. It was cruelly taken from him by your rush to war -- against the United Nations, old allies like France and Germany, western religions' "Just War Doctrine," the entire Arab world, and most civilized nations.

    You inherited peace and prosperity and created murder, mayhem, and massive debt. According to the ongoing investigation of the helicopter crash that took Brian's and 15 other American lives, the Illinois National Guard aircraft were sent into the field without basic survivability equipment, to accommodate your "shoot and bomb first, think and investigate later" brand of foreign policy. We don't need a trigger happy president.

    Finders keepers, losers weepers. While we who have lost our loved ones have only tears to fill the empty space where love and laughter lived, you and your Halliburton cronies have found the oil wells and will undoubtedly keep your blood stained gains. Our sorrow, your gain. Brian was conscientious; someone wasn't. Brian was faithful; someone wasn't. Brian was thoughtful; someone wasn't. Brian was considerate; someone wasn't. Brian was truthful; someone isn't. Brian wasn't sloppy. Someone is.

    Sincerely,
    Rosemarie Dietz Slavenas
    2005 Mandatory Loyalty Oath: I love America, our troops, baseball, Moms, and certain pies. I want no harm to come to any of those institutions, nor do I take any glee in their demise.

    Comment


    • #3
      Bush apparently never thought too much about the disruption of the families who had members that went to Iraq to fight his bogus war.

      Cutting the pay and benefits and not fully insuring the safety of all the good men that went to fight for um, uh, (ahem, cough), our country in Iraq is a huge slap in the fact to our military.

      Not a guy I want as president.
      “I’ve always stated, ‘I’m a Missouri Tiger,’” Anderson said March 13 after Arkansas fired John Pelphrey, adding, “I’m excited about what’s taking place here.”

      Asked then if he would talk to his players about the situation, he said, “They know me, and that’s where the trust comes in.

      Comment


      • #4
        Same ol, same ol, from Triggy. If you look for it -- ahem, trolling around on Salon -- you're going to find it. So what?

        The thing that MAYBE parents don't understand is that when you sign up for the military, you know the consequences. If you don't, they TELL them to you.

        There is an oath you take, which first line reads:

        I am an American, fighting in the forces that guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

        Is that AMBIGUOUS? Does it say, oh, this is an UNJUST war, so I am no longer prepared to give my life?

        NO. So these people know what they're getting into. It's just these crappy writers who know nothing about the military that like to complain.
        The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. -TR

        OFFICIAL LOUNGE SPONSOR OF NEW YORK CITY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THE MARYLAND TERRAPINS

        Madyaks2 Thought Of The Day: I'm just as dumb as madyaks1.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bush also alienated veterans organizations when he proposed to increase Veterans Administration health-care spending in his 2005 budget by only 4 percent, half of which would be generated by new fees and higher drug co-payments.
          That isn't a reasonable thing for military families to be mad about?
          Be passionate about what you believe in, or why bother.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by madyaks@Mar 11 2004, 11:38 AM
            Bush also alienated veterans organizations when he proposed to increase Veterans Administration health-care spending in his 2005 budget by only 4 percent, half of which would be generated by new fees and higher drug co-payments.
            That isn't a reasonable thing for military families to be mad about?
            That's Beltway politics, having to do with funding. Welcome to Washington.

            Look, it just bothers me that Triggy goes trolling for stuff, and says, look, this proves my point about the military.

            That's such bullshit. How many officers, enlisted folks do you see writing these letters? Out of the hundreds of thousands that serve?

            Hardly ANY. He finds some understandably upset mothers letter, and says, look, this is proof.

            It's bullshit. The military doesn't get to choose its battles, they TELL you that going in, and thankfully, most people understand that.

            And Triggy, I hope you won't say it again. Seriously. It makes you look clueless.
            The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. -TR

            OFFICIAL LOUNGE SPONSOR OF NEW YORK CITY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THE MARYLAND TERRAPINS

            Madyaks2 Thought Of The Day: I'm just as dumb as madyaks1.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think it's BS to say the families of the dead don't have the right to be angry.

              Comment


              • #8
                But I thought this was about Bush not supporting his beloved military that he was going to rebuild and bring respect to.

                He just got it larger, and thats good, but he seems not to want to take care of the troops and that is a legitimate issue.
                He has spent money on EVERYTHING else why wasn't better benefits for our soldiers part of his budget?
                Be passionate about what you believe in, or why bother.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kah2523@Mar 11 2004, 11:49 AM
                  I think it's BS to say the families of the dead don't have the right to be angry.
                  I never said that. But Triggy and Salon try to turn it into something larger, that's all. They use it for their political views.
                  The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. -TR

                  OFFICIAL LOUNGE SPONSOR OF NEW YORK CITY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THE MARYLAND TERRAPINS

                  Madyaks2 Thought Of The Day: I'm just as dumb as madyaks1.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lasvegasreb@Mar 11 2004, 11:45 AM
                    It's bullshit. The military doesn't get to choose its battles, they TELL you that going in, and thankfully, most people understand that.

                    And Triggy, I hope you won't say it again. Seriously. It makes you look clueless.
                    You hope I won't say WHAT again? I'm not following you.

                    Here's a quote from the KNIGHT-RIDDER article that was mentioned on Salon. You obviously didn't read the articles.

                    A bipartisan "Battleground" poll of likely voters conducted in September found that Bush's approval rating among relatives of military personnel was only 36 percent. Family members upset by Bush's policy on Iraq are venting through Web sites and public protests.
                    Also this - from the portion I quoted:
                    When the Bush campaign asked James McKinnon to co-chair its veterans steering committee in New Hampshire - a job he held in 2000 - the 56-year-old Vietnam veteran respectfully, but firmly, said no.
                    So a veteran who worked for Bush in 2000 declined to work for Bush again because of Bush's lack of support for the military. That's HUGE.
                    2005 Mandatory Loyalty Oath: I love America, our troops, baseball, Moms, and certain pies. I want no harm to come to any of those institutions, nor do I take any glee in their demise.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Trigfunctions+Mar 11 2004, 11:53 AM-->
                      QUOTE (Trigfunctions @ Mar 11 2004, 11:53 AM)

                    • #12
                      Reb,

                      Welcome to the fever swamp.

                      It never changes.
                      And, frankly, it has never occured to me that "winning" a debate is important, or that I should be hurt when someone like Airshark or kah, among others (for whom winning a pseudo debate or declaring intellectual superiority over invisible others is obviously very important) ridicule me.

                      -The Artist formerly known as King in KC

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by kah2523@Mar 11 2004, 11:49 AM
                        I think it's BS to say the families of the dead don't have the right to be angry.
                        I'm not here to argue. Military families have a right to be mad and vote for whoever they want.

                        I just wanted to say kah's new signature makes me look forward to his posts.
                        "Need some wood?" -- George W. Bush, October 8, 2004

                        "Historians will judge if this war is just, not your punk ass." -- Dave Glover, December 8, 2004

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Bush's approval rating among relatives of military personnel was only 36 percent.
                          Be passionate about what you believe in, or why bother.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by lasvegasreb@Mar 11 2004, 11:57 AM
                            ONE guy is huge? Out of 260m people???

                            Maybe your whole point is that military families are losing support, and I'll grant you that no one wants their son or daughter out fighting a war. Duh.

                            But you also said this

                            Sounds like more and more in the military - and their families - agree.
                            And that just rankles me. Quote families all you want, but more and more IN the military? That's just your imagination.
                            One guy - a veteran who worked co-chaired Bush's veterans steering committee in 2000, refused to work for Bush again, and told Bush that He "was disappointed in his support of veterans," "He's killing the active-duty military. ... Look at the reserves call-ups for Iraq, the hardships. The National Guard - the state militia - is being used improperly. I took the president at his word on Iraq, and now you can't find a single report to back up or substantiate weapons of mass destruction."

                            That is Huge.

                            As for rankling you, I'm not too concerned about that. What I said was that I think the Bush admin holds the military in contempt and that more and more in the military and their families agree. If you include the National Guard troops who are going to be in Iraq for one or 2 years, I think my statement is true. Those service personnel are going to be less likely to support Bush this year, IMO.

                            If you have some proof otherwise, feel free to let us know.
                            2005 Mandatory Loyalty Oath: I love America, our troops, baseball, Moms, and certain pies. I want no harm to come to any of those institutions, nor do I take any glee in their demise.

                            Comment

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