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  • CD
    replied
    One more point here:

    The idea that Bertuzzi be suspended until Moore returns to the NHL is a bad one because it's sets up a horrible precedent which all sorts of teams can take advantage of.

    Let's say, just for the sake of argument, Moore was able to return for the second round of the playoffs and the Avalanche were going to play the Canucks. The Avalanche could just lie and claim Moore, a fourth-line player, is still hurt and can't play, just to prevent Bertuzzi, an all-star player, from playing. Clearly, that's an edge for Colorado, and it's a scenario I don't want to see ever happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • DC Santana
    replied
    Originally posted by Cubs4ever@Mar 11 2004, 10:12 AM
    This is crap that you all are spewing. Bert injured Jackman and beat the Blues last year and now you are pissed and being outrageous. This suspension is about right. Anyone who has played a physical sport, especially hockey, knows shit happens. A guy knocks out your best player, best friend and captain, so you as a bg strong guy go get him. But, like a coward, he walks a way so you hit him. Bad move, but it happens. If that was it, this would be two days and nothing more. Then he fell on him, that was worse, but probably not intended, and only was that bad because Bert is so damn big.

    He should be punished, but his career shouldn't be over. The other guy's likely isn't either, but if it is, well I'm sorry, but Marian Hossa didn't sit it out until Bryan Berrard made a miraculous return. Hate me and call me names for this, but I call it like I see it.
    Nah, I don't hate you for your opinion.

    Your opinion does show your ignorance, which we all knew was considerable.

    Bertuzzi's cowardly actions are certainly not hockey and are inexecusable, even in a physical sport.

    Your comment about Hossa is just plain wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • DC Santana
    replied
    Originally posted by The Kev@Mar 11 2004, 08:14 AM
    I love hockey. The NHL is not hockey.
    The truest comment in this entire thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nsane2Bme
    replied
    Once again...

    thanks Dev.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puck Headcase
    replied
    Originally posted by The Kev@Mar 11 2004, 12:53 PM
    Puck,

    I consider myself a moderate hockey fan.

    I've been following the game since the mid 70's. I loved the old "french connection" line from the Sabres.

    I'll admit that I don't follow it as much as the other three
    No problem, Kev. And my complaint was really pointed more toward all the talking heads who are now suddenly "hockey experts" and full of "advice" (and criticism) about the NHL. Your post just triggered a chance for me to segue to that a little before addressing your comment implying that Bertuzzi was "just" a goon.

    Leave a comment:


  • CD
    replied
    These are two quotes from Bill Clement on this situation, in his ESPN.com chat session today (both of which I completely agree with):

    I personally feel that because there is less fighting, there are more incidents such as the one this week. I actually believe there might not have been the hit on Naslund if the tough guys were allowed to police the sport on the ice. Steve Moore is a great kid but before the instigator rule, if anybody touched Gretzky or Lemieux or Marcel Dionne, the tough guys did what they had to do. And as a result, we seldom saw those players nailed.
    I think with the potential lockout, we have no idea what will happen. And that's why the NHL was smart to leave the issue vague. The last thing Bettman's office needs is to deal with this when trying to settle the CBA. Hockey is going through a very complex time right now and it's future will be redefined in the next five months.
    As I said earlier, the NHL doesn't know that there will be games next season to suspend Bertuzzi from. Thus, if the league suspended Bertuzzi for 20 games of the 2004-05 season, they would have a big fight from the NHLPA if there is no 2004-05 season and the league tried to roll the suspension over to 2005-06.

    The league, very wisely in my opinion, left his future suspensions undefined until they know what, if anything, they will be suspending him from.

    Here's the whole chat session.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nsane2Bme
    replied
    Originally posted by devaskar@Mar 11 2004, 01:19 PM
    But if he goes to the WHA, he's never going to be able to make as much money as he would have made in the NHL (and I say this about all of these neanderthals who think going to the WHA will somehow make up for not playing in the NHL). Bertuzzi made $7 million this year. He probably still would have made $4 or $5 million, at worst, in a reformed NHL. How much can the WHA possibly pay their players when they are going to be in a lot of small markets and when they have no major television deal? If they spend big money on players, they almost assuredly will fail, like the USFL and old WHA and ABA more or less did.

    So even if Bertuzzi is allowed to play in the WHA, his penalty will be millions of dollars in earnings every year. And less job security because upstart leagues like this go from one year to the next in terms of their existance.
    I hear ya...

    but he'll be playing...right now he isn't, and doesn't know when he will be able too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bleacher Creature
    replied
    Originally posted by devaskar@Mar 11 2004, 12:56 PM
    Kev,

    Just for informational purposes, Todd Bertuzzi is a two-time all-star and finished fifth in the league in scoring last season.
    Dev,

    Thanks. I'll admit that I don't follow him very closely. I just remember his collisions with a few Blues.

    Leave a comment:


  • CD
    replied
    But if he goes to the WHA, he's never going to be able to make as much money as he would have made in the NHL (and I say this about all of these neanderthals who think going to the WHA will somehow make up for not playing in the NHL). Bertuzzi made $7 million this year. He probably still would have made $4 or $5 million, at worst, in a reformed NHL. How much can the WHA possibly pay their players when they are going to be in a lot of small markets and when they have no major television deal? If they spend big money on players, they almost assuredly will fail, like the USFL and old WHA and ABA more or less did.

    So even if Bertuzzi is allowed to play in the WHA, his penalty will be millions of dollars in earnings every year. And less job security because upstart leagues like this go from one year to the next in terms of their existance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nsane2Bme
    replied
    OK….I asked this elsewhere…and either no one seemed to know, or I didn’t word it correctly…so I’m going to try this again…here, with a little more thought added to it…(uh-oh!)

    This is what I understand, he’s not playing in the NHL for the rest of this season and the playoffs (basically, he can hit the golf course), but since there probably won’t be a NHL season next year due to the CBA, and IF the WHA starts up, he can play there…like “nothing every happened”

    If the WHA scenario plays itself out, and things are formed, and he does play…that pisses me off. Basically all he gets is a slap on the hand.

    Am I missing something, and if so what? (It’s possible that I am missing something, because there are so many opinions and articles about this, that I don’t see how anyone can read all of them, and I haven’t)

    Leave a comment:


  • CD
    replied
    Kev,

    Just for informational purposes, Todd Bertuzzi is a two-time all-star and finished fifth in the league in scoring last season.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bleacher Creature
    replied
    Puck,

    I consider myself a moderate hockey fan.

    I've been following the game since the mid 70's. I loved the old "french connection" line from the Sabres.

    I'll admit that I don't follow it as much as the other three

    Leave a comment:


  • CD
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa_Card@Mar 11 2004, 10:37 AM
    95% of the fights in the NHL are fought without a serious intent to injure.
    Define "serious". (I'm not saying you're wrong, but "serious" is a subjective term)
    Serious: Intent to do any harm beyond some minor pain.

    There are definitely exceptions to that--Matt Cooke wanted to inflict real damage to Steve Moore on Monday night, for example--but the overwhelming majority of fights are not done with the idea of inflicting pain.

    At least not anymore.

    Lazy: I don't have any doubt in my mind that my 95% number isn't at least close to accurate. Enforcers in the NHL are like a fraternity. They go out, give the fans something to cheer about, and have a good laugh about their scrap later on. As I said, there are certainly exceptions to it, but fights between enforcers for the purposes of inflicting serious pain are few and far between.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puck Headcase
    replied
    Originally posted by The Kev@Mar 11 2004, 10:15 AM
    This is why I don't care for the NHL brand of hockey. What other sports leauge stocks their rosters with a man or two, who has no offensive, skating, or defensive talents, except that can goon it up.
    :rolleyes: I think what ticks me off more than anything are those "johnny-come-latelies" who don't know much, if anything, about hockey (NHL) and start spouting to further their anti-NHL/anti-hockey agenda.

    Kev, trust me, Bertuzzi is NOT a player who has no offensive, skating or defensive talents. He is not a goon. (I think his style of play is 1mm short of being dirty, but he is NOT a goon.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Puck Headcase
    replied
    Originally posted by Cubs4ever@Mar 11 2004, 10:12 AM
    This is crap that you all are spewing. Bert injured Jackman and beat the Blues last year and now you are pissed and being outrageous. This suspension is about right. Anyone who has played a physical sport, especially hockey, knows shit happens. A guy knocks out your best player, best friend and captain, so you as a bg strong guy go get him. But, like a coward, he walks a way so you hit him. Bad move, but it happens. If that was it, this would be two days and nothing more. Then he fell on him, that was worse, but probably not intended, and only was that bad because Bert is so damn big.
    I'm a Blues fan who thinks that the hit on Jackman was clean (barely), but Jackman should have kept his head up (like he was taught in pee wee). So I'm bearing absolutely no grudge against Bertuzzi (IMHO, he was the kind of player you hate ... until he's on your team.)

    But you're doggoned right I'm pissed about this suspension. The fact that Moore (who according to the player's "code" had already settled the score when he took on Cooke) chose not to fight Bertuzzi does NOT excuse Bertuzzi from disregarding his "no" and coldcocking him (from behind). No more than it excuses a guy who asks the gal to have sex; she says "no"; he doesn't take no for an answer and forces himself on her. It's rape ... the fact that he asked first absolutely, positively does NOT change the fact that it was rape. No different with Bertuzzi.

    Leave a comment:

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