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NFL execs: Redskins made bad deal

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  • NFL execs: Redskins made bad deal

    Even the personnel men leaguewide who feel Clinton Portis is a terrific young back are in agreement that the Washington Redskins got hoodwinked on the trade that sent corner Champ Bailey and a second-round draft choice to Denver. Even as a straight-up deal, one-for-one, the Broncos would have had an edge, because cornerback is one of the most premium positions in the league, by any measure. But to have thrown in a second-round pick along with a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback who is just 25 years old was viewed as ludicrous. Then again, once Redskins owner Dan Snyder ill-advisedly made linebacker LaVar Arrington his top defensive player -- something about how Arrington wanted to be a Redskin for life and Bailey didn't -- he had no recourse but to get rid of the corner. There is only room for one stud defender and Snyder chose Arrington, while 31 other owners would have retained Bailey because of the position he plays. The addition of the second-round pick in the trade simply compounded the first mistake. Snyder typically overpays for everything and the trade for Portis was simply the latest example.
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  • #2
    Great cover corners allow a D so much flexibility but franchise RBs make a team.

    The Redskins are gambling theat Portis is such a RB.

    I'm not so sure they are wrong.

    The 2nd thrown in though does tilt the deal to the Broncs in my opinion.

    Bailey is what he is...Portis is the question. Is he truly great or another byproduct of Denvers' historically great running game under Shanahan. Time will tell.

    Snyder rolls the die again. At least you can't say the guy isn;t willing to take chances.
    Go Cards ...12 in 13.


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    • #3
      I've felt all along that this was a horrible deal by Washington. Anytime you give up an elite cornerback (especially when they are only 25 years old) you have made a bad deal.

      You can win a Super Bowl with an average running back. It's almost impossible to win a Super Bowl with anything short of very good cornerbacks.

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      • #4
        The Rams won with Todd Lyght and Dexter McCleon

        Neither of those guys are going to the Hall of Fame

        You can't win with bad CBs but you can win with average Cbs if you have a good to great pass rush
        Go Cards ...12 in 13.


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        • #5
          Todd Lyght was a Pro Bowler in 1999.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by devaskar@Mar 5 2004, 07:10 PM
            Todd Lyght was a Pro Bowler in 1999.
            Yes, and I remember thinking at the time that he was undeserving ...he was good ..not great.
            Go Cards ...12 in 13.


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            • #7
              Lyght didn't get accolades based on past reputation...it's the only Pro Bowl he ever made, a selection I agreed with.

              Even still, the 1999 Rams are an anamoly on a lot of different levels. They were the one great offense to win a Super Bowl since the NFL transition took place because when they ran into the great defense that shut them down, the team with a great defense had the most wretched offense imaginable. And if you don't think Todd Lyght was any better than average, they're probably the only Super Bowl winner since the rules changed to favor passing to win with anything less than very good cornerbacks.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by devaskar@Mar 5 2004, 07:20 PM
                Lyght didn't get accolades based on past reputation...it's the only Pro Bowl he ever made, a selection I agreed with.

                Even still, the 1999 Rams are an anamoly on a lot of different levels. They were the one great offense to win a Super Bowl since the NFL transition took place because when they ran into the great defense that shut them down, the team with a great defense had the most wretched offense imaginable. And if you don't think Todd Lyght was any better than average, they're probably the only Super Bowl winner since the rules changed to favor passing to win with anything less than very good cornerbacks.
                Otis Smith was not a great DB either.

                Law ..outstanding but Otis Smith ...well mostly he was old.

                The Cowboys didn't have 2 great corners either.

                Most of the SB teams have had one really good CB but how many have had two?
                Go Cards ...12 in 13.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TTB@Mar 5 2004, 06:52 PM
                  Great cover corners allow a D so much flexibility but franchise RBs make a team.

                  Why? I don't see any proof of this statement in the NFL. Ricky Williams is a "franchise RB", but I haven't seen any of his teams do anything in the playoffs. In fact, they rarely even make the playoffs.

                  IMO, the real difference makers are the offensive and defensive lines. You do need a good QB and decent backs/receivers on offense and good LB's/corners on defense, but the lines are what makes the true difference on a team.
                  *Syria becomes the 7th predominantly Muslim country bombed by 2009 Nobel Peace Laureate Barack Obama—after Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya and Iraq

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dhaab+Mar 5 2004, 07:45 PM-->
                    QUOTE(dhaab @ Mar 5 2004, 07:45 PM)

                  • #11
                    NE had Ted Washington.

                    The biggest difference maker in the game is the DL.

                    If you can get pressure with 4 guys, or stop the run with 6, you have a distinct advantage.
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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by lazydaze@Mar 5 2004, 07:58 PM


                      The biggest difference maker in the game is the DL.

                      I agree. A great DL and a great RB will go a long way.

                      Look at the 85 Bears.
                      Go Cards ...12 in 13.


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                      • #13
                        You don't need two GREAT cornerbacks. The better the top corner, the more average the second can be, because if you have one great corner, he can go man-to-man against the opponents' top receiver, allowing a defense to scheme to help on the other side.

                        The Patriots have this luxury with Ty Law. Because of how good Law is on one side, they can roll coverage to help Otis Smith or Terrell Buckley or Tyrone Poole. Dallas was able to do this, first with Kevin Smith and then with Deion Sanders, to help Larry Brown. The 49ers did this when they had Deion Sanders to help Eric Davis. And even Brown and Davis were probably no better than a touch above average, at their best.

                        Meanwhile, the 2002 Bucs had two very good corners, the 2000 Ravens had an elite corner (McAlister) and an above average corner (Starks), the 1997 and 1998 Broncos had two above average corners (Crockett and Gordon), the 1996 Packers had two above average corners (Evans and Williams), the 1995 Cowboys had the best corner in the league (Deion) and a bit better than average corner (Brown), and the 1994 49ers also had the best corner in the league and a bit better than average corner (Davis). The 1992 and '93 Cowboys had Kevin Smith, who was very good, along with Brown. The 1991 Redskins had a Hall of Fame corner (Green) and an above average one (Mayhew). The 1990 Giants had two very good corners (Collins and Williams). The 1988 and 1989 49ers had a very good corner (Griffin) and above average one (Pollard). The 1987 Redskins had the same corners that they had in 1991. The 1986 Giants had the same ones they had in 1990. The 1985 Bears had a very good corner (Richardson) and an above average one (Frazier). The 1984 49ers had two Pro Bowl cornerbacks (Lott and Wright, plus two Pro Bowl safeties in Hicks and Williamson). The 1983 Raiders had a Hall of Fame corner (Haynes) and a second corner who should be in the Hall of Fame (Hayes). The 1982 Redskins had two Pro Bowl corners (Nelms and Peters). The 1981 49ers had the same as in 1984. The 1980 Raiders had arguably the best defensive player in the NFL in 1980 (Hayes). I don't know who their other corner was but he probably had a ton of help considering who was on the other side. The 1978 and '79 Steelers had a Hall of Famer (Mel Blount) and a very good one (Thomas). 1978 was the first year of the rule changes.

                        Right now, Washington has an above average corner (Smoot) and an average, injury-prone corner who has been living on reputation for five years (Springs). Not nearly good enough. And the value of cornerbacks is even greater now than it used to be because it's harder to compensate for lesser ones with teams having a cap on how much money they can spend. And truly elite cornerbacks are so rare that it is nothing short of foolish to give them up. There may be fewer truly elite cornerbacks than there are elite of any other position.

                        There are at least 10 "elite" running backs in the NFL today (Portis, Lewis, Tomlinson, Holmes, Green, McAllister, Henry, Davis, Alexander, Taylor; and that doesn't even include an often injured Faulk or Williams). I don't think there are more than five truly elite cornerbacks (Law, Woodson, McAlister, Bailey, maybe Surtain) but there are twice as many starting cornerbacks as there are starting running backs.

                        None of the top six rushers in 2003 got to their conference championship game and only one of the top 12. Further illustrating the lack of importance of a great running game is 2002, when none of the top six rushers and only one of the top 11 even made the playoffs. Even in 2001, only four of the top 10 made the playoffs.

                        This was a good deal for the Redskins if their goal is to play entertaining football and make the playoffs. If their goal is to win the Super Bowl, it was a bad trade.

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by dhaab+Mar 5 2004, 05:45 PM-->
                          QUOTE(dhaab @ Mar 5 2004, 05:45 PM)

                        • #15
                          Originally posted by lazydaze@Mar 5 2004, 05:58 PM
                          NE had Ted Washington.

                          The biggest difference maker in the game is the DL.

                          If you can get pressure with 4 guys, or stop the run with 6, you have a distinct advantage.
                          I think a run-stuffing defensive tackle is the only position on the field more important than a top cornerback.

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