Should Stephen Strasburg get an ASG nod?

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06-24-2010, 02:03 PM
Tazlaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

Doesn't qualify for what? We're not giving out awards. We've having a discussion about the merits of one pitcher vs those of a handful of other pitchers.

In terms of stats, Strasburg compares VERY favorably.

He doesn't qualify for the ERA title because he hasn't thrown enough innings. That essentially renders all his numbers moot because of sample size.
06-24-2010, 02:03 PM
007

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

4 games...and so what? If he's the best (or among the best) the NL has to offer, he HAS to be there.

So what? You think players are going to select him based upon four games? :lol:

Managers/coaches may but I can't honestly see players doing it: it's an earn respect/pay your dues league...
06-24-2010, 02:04 PM
007

Quote:

Originally Posted by kah

Objections to Strasburg rest on the assumption that there is some strict merit-based criteria for selection to the ASG. This of course is not true and never has been.

I know this. Don't care.
06-24-2010, 02:04 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazlaz

He'd be taking a spot away from someone who has proven it over a longer period of time - the entire season. This is an abnormal season with a huge number of pitchers having fantastic numbers. In any other season, I could see a case being made. He loses out because of the quality of his peers.

I suppose R.A. Dickey should get an invite, too. He started the season in the minors and is 6-0 in only 7 starts for the Mets, with a 2.33 ERA.

Not the entire season. Not even half of the entire season.

If you want to call other pitchers his peers, then put his numbers up against them. He belongs in the ASG without question.

Your case is based on one stat: IP. In trying to win one game in the middle of the season, I can't think of a single pitching stat that's less relevant than IP.
06-24-2010, 02:05 PM
Tazlaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

4 games...and so what? If he's the best (or among the best) the NL has to offer, he HAS to be there.

Sorry, but until he can do something for more than 4 games (or 7, by the ASB), I'm not ready to annoint him among the best in the NL - for this year or otherwise.
06-24-2010, 02:06 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazlaz

Sorry, but until he can do something for more than 4 games (or 7, by the ASB), I'm not ready to annoint him among the best in the NL - for this year or otherwise.

Opposing hitters would all disagree with you. They would put him amongst the best in the majors, not just the NL.
06-24-2010, 02:07 PM
Tazlaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

Not the entire season. Not even half of the entire season.

If you want to call other pitchers his peers, then put his numbers up against them. He belongs in the ASG without question.

Your case is based on one stat: IP. In trying to win one game in the middle of the season, I can't think of a single pitching stat that's less relevant than IP.

I wasn't aware that this game was part of the season. It's an exhibition, and it's a reward for players who have earned it through the first, roughly, 3 months of the season. 3 months, not 1. Again, if there weren't so many NL pitchers having fantastic years - this could be an argument. But tell me 5 or 6 on my list who he is more deserving than.
06-24-2010, 02:08 PM
kah

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007

I know this. Don't care.

Well said!

But for those of us who recognize that the ASG is a fan-driven event, the case for Strasburg is pretty strong. This isn't nearly as stupid as sending his jersey to the HOF.
06-24-2010, 02:09 PM
Tazlaz

Why am I getting flashbacks to ArtSight and the Franklin debate? He deserved to go based on his stats, not his stuff, right?

Same here. Great that he's got phenomenal stuff. Not great that people think he's deserving after 4 starts.
06-24-2010, 02:10 PM
kah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazlaz

Why am I getting flashbacks to ArtSight and the Franklin debate? He deserved to go based on his stats, not his stuff, right?

Same here. Great that he's got phenomenal stuff. Not great that people think he's deserving after 4 starts.

"deserve ain't got nothing to do with it"
06-24-2010, 02:12 PM
007

Quote:

Originally Posted by kah

Well said!

But for those of us who recognize that the ASG is a fan-driven event, the case for Strasburg is pretty strong. This isn't nearly as stupid as sending his jersey to the HOF.

I haven't seen a compelling case based upon the long-held Lounge belief - by most, anyway - that an All-Star nod is an earned invitation yet in regards to Strasburg...

I really don't have an opinion on it; thought it would make for a good discussion...
06-24-2010, 02:13 PM
kah

I just wanna see Wonderboy face some AL big hitters. That's all.
06-24-2010, 02:14 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazlaz

I wasn't aware that this game was part of the season. It's an exhibition, and it's a reward for players who have earned it through the first, roughly, 3 months of the season. 3 months, not 1. Again, if there weren't so many NL pitchers having fantastic years - this could be an argument. But tell me 5 or 6 on my list who he is more deserving than.

The game isn't an exhibition anymore. It's a contest to decide who gets HFA in the World Series. You have to take your best players....and when it comes to who's best suited to pitch to the best of the AL, not only does Strasburg belong in the top 10 of the NL, he belongs in the top 3.

Here's your quote: Stephen Strasburg is more deserving of pitching against the AL in a game that matters than everyone on your list not named Jimenez or Johnson.
06-24-2010, 02:15 PM
house77

This is idiotic.
06-24-2010, 02:15 PM
BringBackZezel

Would Strasburg "deserve" to go to the ASG if he'd come up to the majors on May 1?
06-24-2010, 02:20 PM
Tazlaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

Would Strasburg "deserve" to go to the ASG if he'd come up to the majors on May 1?

We'll never know, will we? He could have gotten 5 extra wins and lowered his ERA - or gotten shelled. That's like an argument a coach tried on me yesterday when a thrown ball went under the front fence of, and into, the dugout. "Well it wouldn't have gone out of play had the fence extended all the way down. They shouldn't get an extra base!"
06-24-2010, 02:22 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazlaz

We'll never know, will we? He could have gotten 5 extra wins and lowered his ERA - or gotten shelled. That's like an argument a coach tried on me yesterday when a thrown ball went under the front fence of, and into, the dugout. "Well it wouldn't have gone out of play had the fence extended all the way down. They shouldn't get an extra base!"

If he'd put up the same numbers over 6 more starts, would you be in favor of him being there then?
06-24-2010, 02:28 PM
i.am.js

4 games, 5 games, whatever. it's no different than seeing a player on the ballot who hasn't played all season, which has been done in other sports.

I know Yashin's name was on the ballot despite holding out, and T-Mac rec'd votes last season (280k worth, according to this article.

I don't see the problem with it. It's a game for the fans.
06-24-2010, 02:30 PM
Tazlaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

If he'd put up the same numbers over 6 more starts, would you be in favor of him being there then?

It'd put him up there with the others, yes. You giving him credit for those starts?
06-24-2010, 02:30 PM
007

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

Would Strasburg "deserve" to go to the ASG if he'd come up to the majors on May 1?

Did he come up May 1?
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazlaz

It'd put him up there with the others, yes. You giving him credit for those starts?

I'm simply pointing out the fault in your arguement...you think he belongs out only because he hasn't pitched enough innings.
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007

Did he come up May 1?

Does anyone on Taz's list have a better WHIP than Strasburg?
How about K/9?
How about BB/K?
06-24-2010, 02:33 PM
007

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

Does anyone on Taz's list have a better WHIP than Strasburg?
How about K/9?
How about BB/K?

Congrats on moving the discussion back to sample size...
06-24-2010, 02:34 PM
Tazlaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackZezel

I'm simply pointing out the fault in your arguement...you think he belongs out only because he hasn't pitched enough innings.

I don't believe I ever said anything to the contrary. Hell, I reasoned it in my original post that it was because he's "... a guy who's started 4 games."
06-24-2010, 02:36 PM
BringBackZezel

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007

Congrats on moving the discussion back to sample size...

please answer the question.

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